CHULIN 31-43 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the Yahrzeit of her father, Rav Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Rabbi Morton Weiner) Z'L, who passed away on 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Dafyomi study -- which was so important to him -- during the weeks of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.

1)

(a)Our Mishnah invalidates a Shechitah in the name of mountains, hills, seas and rivers. What does that mean?

(b)Which item does the Tana add to the list?

(c)And what does he say about a case where two people are holding opposite ends of the knife, and one of them Shechts in the name of one of the above, and the other, S'tam?

1)

(a)When our Mishnah invalidates a Shechitah in the name of mountains, hills, seas and rivers, it means that - one declared them a god and Shechted to them.

(b)The item that the Tana adds to this list is - deserts.

(c)He rules that if two people are holding opposite ends of the knife, and one of them Shechts in the name of one of the above, and the other, S'tam - the Shechitah is Pasul.

2)

(a)What do we extrapolate from the Lashon of the Tana 'ha'Shochet le'Shem Harim ... *Pesulah*'?

(b)What would be the difference if it was Zivchei Meisim?

(c)What is the reason for this? Why is it ...

1. ... not Zivchei Meisim?

2. ... then Pasul?

(d)After presenting a list equivalent to our Mishnah, the Beraisa adds the sun, the moon, the stars, the Mazalos, Micha'el the great angel and a little worm. What is the significance of the last two items?

(e)How does the Tana conclude?

2)

(a)We extrapolate from the Lashon of the Tana 'ha'Shochet le'Shem Harim ... Pesulah' that - the Shechitah is Pasul, but it is not Zivchei Meisim ...

(b)... and therefore not Asur be'Hana'ah.

(c)The reason that it is ...

1. ... not Zivchei Meisim is - because they are all considered Mechubar le'Karka (attached to the ground), and what is Mechubar le'Karka cannot become an Avodah-Zarah min ha'Torah.

2. ... nevertheless Pasul - because seeing as it resembles Shechting to Avodah-Zarah, the Chachamim declared it Pasul.

(d)After presenting a list equivalent to our Mishnah, the Beraisa adds the sun, the moon, the stars, the Mazalos, Micha'el the great angel and a little worm. The last two - simply represent the largest creature and the smallest.

(e)And the Tana concludes - Harei Eilu Zivchei Meisim (thereby clashing with our Mishnah).

3)

(a)How does Abaye resolve the discrepancy between the Mishnah and the Beraisa?

(b)And how does he prove it?

3)

(a)Abaye resolves the discrepancy between the Mishnah and the Beraisa - by establishing our Mishnah where one Shechts to the actual objects themselves; whereas the Beraisa speaks - where he Shechts to their respective angels.

(b)And he proves it - by the fact that the latter inserts Micha'el, the great angel, which the former did not.

4)

(a)From where do we know that an animal before which someone prostrated himself is Mutar be'Hana'ah?

(b)What does Rav Huna say about a case where someone Shechted one Si'man of an animal to Avodah-Zarah?

(c)Does this mean that the animal would be permitted if he Shechted less than one Si'man?

(d)Why does he refer to his friend's animal and not to his own? What did we learn in Avodah-Zarah about someone who digs pits in his field and prostrates himself to them?

4)

(a)We know that an animal before which someone prostrated himself is Mutar be'Hana'ah - from the fact that the Torah forbids it to be brought as a Korban.

(b)Rav Huna nevertheless rules that in a case where someone Shechted one Si'man of an animal to Avodah-Zarah - he renders it Asur (even to a Hedyot).

(c)One Si'man - is La'av Davka. The same will apply even if one Shechts only half a Si'man.

(d)Rav Huna refers to his friend's animal and not to his own - because that we know already from the Sugya in Avodah-Zarah, which rules that if someone digs pits in his field and prostrates himself to them - they are Asur be'Hana'ah.

5)

(a)Rav Huna holds like Ula Amar Rebbi Yochanan, who refers to the Halachah ha'Mishtachaveh le'Behemas Chaveiro, Lo Asrah. Does this also incorporate bringing it on the Mizbe'ach?

(b)What did Ula Amar Rebbi Yochanan comment, based on this Halachah?

(c)Why does Rav Huna add that the animal was already crouching? Of what significance is that?

5)

(a)Rav Huna holds like Ula Amar Rebbi Yochanan, who refers to the Halachah ha'Mishtachaveh le'Behemas Chaveiro, Lo Asrah - even with regard to bringing it on the Mizbe'ach.

(b)Based on this Halachah, Ula Amar Rebbi Yochanan commented that - if one performs an act on the animal, it becomes forbidden (even to a Hedyot).

(c)Rav Huna adds that the animal was already crouching - because if it had been standing, then he would have acquired it when lifting it off the ground to throw it down for the Shechitah.

6)

(a)Rav Nachman queries Rav Huna from a Beraisa. How many Chata'os does the Tana obligate someone to bring if he Shechts be'Shogeg, a sin-offering on Shabbos outside the Azarah?

(b)Why is the Shechitah on Shabbos not considered Mekalkel (damaging the animal, by depriving it of its plowing potential)?

6)

(a)Rav Nachman queries Rav Huna from a Beraisa which obligates someone who Shechts be'Shogeg, a a sin-offering on Shabbos outside the Azarah to bring - three Chata'os, one for Shabbos, one for Shechting Kodshim ba'Chutz and one for Avodah-Zarah.

(b)The Shechitah on Shabbos is not considered Mekalkel (damaging the animal, by depriving it of its plowing potential) - because on the other hand, it permits the animal (which until now was Eiver min ha'Chai) to Nochrim.

40b----------------------------------------40b

7)

(a)What does Rav Nachman now ask on Rav Huna? Why should the Shochet not be Chayav on Shechutei Chutz?

(b)Bearing in mind the Halachah that we cited earlier, rendering Chayav someone who Shechts one Si'man ba'Chutz and one Si'man bi'Fenim, since he performed Ma'aseh Chatas ha'Of ba'Chutz, what is the Kashya? Why is he not Chayav here too, for the same reason?

(c)Then why does Rav Nachman not ask the same Kashya on Shechitas Shabbos? Why is it nevertheless obvious that he is Chayav for that?

7)

(a)Rav Nachman now asks on Rav Huna that - since, in his opinion, the animal becomes Asur be'Hana'ah (because of Avodah-Zarah), the Shochet should not be Chayav for Shechutei Chutz (seeing as the Shechitah is Pasul).

(b)The Halachah that we cited earlier, rendering Chayav someone who Shechts one Si'man ba'Chutz and one Si'man bi'Fenim, since he performed Ma'aseh Chatas ha'Of ba'Chutz - is not applicable here, since he is only Chayav there because he completed the Shechitah (rendering him Chayav retroactively for the first Si'man), whereas here he did not complete the Shechitah, in which case the Shechitah is invalid, and Rav Nachman's Kashya is justified.

(c)Rav Nachman does not however, ask the same Kashya on Shechitas Shabbos - because the Chiyuv on Shabbos, is not for the Shechitah, but for killing or wounding the animal, which he has done even if the Shechitah as such, is Pasul.

8)

(a)Rav Papa answers by establishing the Beraisa by Chatas ha'Of. How does that answer the Kashya?

(b)Why does he mention specifically Chatas ha'Of and not Olas ha'Of?

(c)What problem do we have with ...

1. ... this answer, based on the fact that Rav Huna holds like Ula? Why would the Shechitah to Avodah-Zarah still negate the Shechitah?

2. ... the suggestion that the Beraisa is speaking where the Shochet specifically states that he only wants to worship the animal at the end of the Shechitah, based on the Tana's reference to Chatas?

(d)What does this Kashya have to do with Rav Huna?

8)

(a)Rav Papa answers by establishing the Beraisa by Chatas ha'Of - which answers the Kashya, inasmuch as it only requires one Si'man to be 'Shechted' to be considered a Shechitah. Consequently, one becomes Chayav all three La'avin simultaneously upon completing one Si'man.

(b)He mentions specifically Chatas ha'Of and not Olas ha'Of - because Olas ha'Of requires the Shechitah of both Simanim.

(c)The problem with ...

1. ... this answer, based on the fact that Rav Huna holds like Ula is that - according to Ula, the Chiyuv for Avodah-Zarah does not require a complete Si'man (as we already earlier), in which case the Kashya remains.

2. ... the suggestion that the Beraisa is speaking where the Shochet specifically states that he only wants to worship the animal at the end of the Shechitah, based on the Tana's reference to Chatas is that - in that case, why does the Tana say 'ha'Shochet es ha'Chatas be'Shabbos'? Seeing as such a condition would cause all three Chiyuvim to take effect simultaneously by any Korban, he ought to have said 'ha'Shochet es ha'Zevach'.

(d)As a matter of fact - this Kashya has nothing to do with Rav Huna, and would have been problematic, even if Rav Huna had not said anything.

9)

(a)How does Rav Zutra in the name of Rav Papa therefore establish the Beraisa, given that the Tana is referring to a Chatas ha'Of, and that the Shochet did not make any conditions?

(b)Rav Papa also comments on the fact that Rav Huna mentioned Si'man Echad. How does that reflect on Ula (Amar Rebbi Yochanan)'s opinion?

(c)Why would Rav Nachman not have queried Rav Huna had he simply concluded ... Keivan she'Shachtah, Asrah?

9)

(a)Given that the Tana is referring to a Chatas ha'Of, and that the Shochet did not make any conditions, Rav Zutra in the name of Rav Papa therefore establishes the Beraisa - where half the Kaneh of the bird was already broken, and all that was required was a Mashehu Shechitah (in which case all three Isurim take effect simultaneously).

(b)Rav Papa also comments on the fact that Rav Huna mentioned Si'man Echad - which indicates that Ula (Amar Rebbi Yochanan) requires no more than a Ma'aseh Kol de'Hu to forbid the animal (since with regard to the Shechitah of an animal, there is no difference between Shechting one Si'man and Shechting half a Si'man).

(c)Had Rav Huna simply concluded ... Keivan she'Shachtah, Asrah, Rav Nachman would not have queried him - since we would have then assumed that he requires a complete Ma'aseh (a Kasher Shechitah), for the animal to become forbidden.

10)

(a)Rav Papa adds that Rav Nachman would not have queried Rav Huna either, had the latter not mentioned Behemas Chaveiro, because then we would have understood that Rav Huna holds that one cannot forbid somebody else's animal. On what basis would Rav Nachman's Kashya from the Beraisa then have fallen away? Who does somebody else refer to?

(b)Why does Rav Papa need to say this? Why is it not obvious?

10)

(a)Rav Papa adds that Rav Nachman would not have queried him either, had he not mentioned Behemas Chaveiro, because then we would have understood that Rav Huna holds that one cannot forbid someone else's animal. Rav Nachman's Kashya from the Beraisa would then have fallen away - because then the Shechitah to Avodah-Zarah would not have rendered the animal forbidden, since it is the Kohanim who own the Chatas, and if, as we are currently suggesting, Reuven cannot forbid Shimon's animal, even with a Ma'aseh, the Chatas would have remained permitted, enabling all three Chata'os to take effect simultaneously.

(b)Had Rav Papa not said this - we would have assumed the Shochet to be the owner, since he is the one who receives the atonement (in which case Rav Nachman's Kashya would have applied).

11)

(a)Alternatively, when we ask why (if the Tana is speaking where the owner stipulated that he only wants to Shecht the animal to Avodah-Zarah at the end of the Shechitah) the Tana says Chatas and not Zevach, we are referring to Shelamim in particular. What is then the Kashya on Rav Huna?

(b)What is the difference between this Lashon and the first Lashon?

(c)Why is this Lashon preferable to the first one?

11)

(a)Alternatively, when we ask why (if the Tana is speaking where the owner stipulated that he only wants to Shecht it to Avodah-Zarah at the end of the Shechitah) the Tana says Chatas and not Zevach, we are referring to Shelamim in particular, which belongs to the owner. Now however, that the Tana mentions Chatas (which belongs to the Kohanim) - the reason that the Shechitah to Avodah-Zarah does not render the animal Asur must be (not because all three take effect at the same time, but) because one cannot forbid an animal that belongs to somebody else (a Kashya on Rav Huna).

(b)According to this Lashon, the Kashya is on Rav Huna, whereas according to the first Lashon, it is purely a Kashya on the wording of the Beraisa, irrespective of Rav Huna (as we explained there).

(c)This Lashon is preferable to the first one - because the purpose of the Sugya is to query Rav Huna, not the Beraisa.

12)

(a)Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak all maintain that Reuven cannot render Shimon's animal forbidden, even with a Ma'aseh. What sort of Ma'aseh are they talking about?

(b)We already established the Beraisa of ha'Shochet Chatas be'Shabbos by a Chatas ha'Of. How do we know that this is the case even according to these Amora'im, too?

(c)Had the Tana called it a Zevach, why would he have referred to an Olah rather than to a Chatas?

(d)According to Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak, why does the Tana then speak about a Chatas ha'Of and not ...

1. ... a Chatas Beheimah or an Asham?

2. ... an Olas Beheimah?

3. ... a Shelamim or other Kodshim Kalim?

12)

(a)Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak all maintain that Reuven cannot render Shimon's animal forbidden even with a Ma'aseh - even a complete one (as is evident from the Kashya from Menasech later in the Sugya).

(b)We already established the Beraisa of ha'Shochet Chatas be'Shabbos by a Chatas ha'Of. We know that this is the case even according to these Amora'im, too - from the fact that the Tana mentions ha'Shochet es ha'Chatas and not ... es ha'Zevach.

(c)Had the Tana called it a Zevach, he would have referred to an Olah rather than to a Chatas - since it is more common.

(d)According to Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak, the Tana speaks about a Chatas ha'Of and not ...

1. ... a Chatas Beheimah or an Asham - because these the owner acquires for his Kaparah, in which case the Shechitah to Avodah-Zarah would render it Asur, and he would not be Chayav for Shechutei Chutz.

2. ... an Olas Beheimah - because an Olah too atones for an Asei, so the owner would acquire it as well.

3. ... a Shelamim or other Kodshim Kalim - because they belong to the owner in any case, since he is the one who eats the Basar.

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