Hello Rabbi Kornfeld.
As I was reading this Enlightening Divrei Torah, I had three questions:
(a) First of all aren't we suppose to discourage potential geirim like Orpa? I mean in the case of Avrohom she felt she wouldn't be excepted even AFTER she converted, but wasn't the case of Orpa a typical case where we try to push off the prospective?
(b) I really don't understand why was it necessary to kill 7 (Lichora Innocent) descendants of shaul, why couldn't Dovid just promise to take care of their financial needs, and what good would the killing do for them? how does it show that we care if they still didn't solve the financial problem?
(c) In regards to part 2 of this email: Hunting. If we go as far as to say that dovid performed Sh'chito with the arrow, why can't we just say that he would shoot the arrow on the foot so the deer would still be alive (without making it treifo) and the then shecht it later?
Thank you
Shmuel Tannenbaum
Shmuel,
(a) Yes, we do discourage them. But we have to be very careful not to go too far and shun them when they are truly sincere. If Orpah's children were so harmful to the Jewish People, it must be that she had at least some amount of sincere intentions (as we find with regard to Timna and Amalek, on 99b). If she was not completely ready for Gerus, Naomi should at least have given her time to cultivate her feelings for Judaism, rather than sending her away for good.
(b) The Givonim demanded revenge, not compensation. (Because of this evil trait Chazal prohibited them to marry into the nation, see Yevamos 79a.) Therefore the Kidush Hash-m could only be accomplished by giving them what they wanted, on their terms.
(c) Good suggestion!
M. Kornfeld
Dear Rabbi Kornfeld,
First, yashar koach on your work. I've just joined up but was inspired by
your insights already, and hope to perhaps comment and/or ask questions.
1. Regarding the below responses, however, I think more clarity is needed. Like
the questioner, I've also always not understood that chazal about the
Givonim and why it is a kiddush hashem, or if it is why 7 people have to be
murdered for it to come about. What happened to chai bahem, or pushing aside
Torah to save a life except for avoda zara, gilui arayos, shvichos damim and
shmad? What does this fall under? Just because the Givonim demanded revenge
in the form of killing Jews who themselves had done no wrong doesn't mean we
should give in to them.
2. Second, the answer of shooting the foot of the bird seems to violate tzaar
baalei chayim.
In general, these issues still seem muddeneh to me.
If you have any further insights I would be grateful if you could share
them.
Kol tuv,
Yaakov Astor
Yitzchok Zirkind also wrote:
OTOH if he was such a good marksman, there would be no need to shoot in the foot, because it would be Tzaar Baal Chai without purpose (in addition that the deer would still be able to hop on 3 feet).
Kol Tuv,
Yitzchok Zirkind
1. The story of the Givonim was a Hora'as Sha'ah, based on Nevu'ah (see Yevamos 79a, Rishonim in Tanach; see Yevamos 91b for an explanation of "Hora'as Sha'ah.")
2. Good point.
M. Kornfeld