38b----------------------------------------38b

1)

WHAT IS PAS HA'BA B'KISNIN? [Berachos :Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin]

(a)

Gemara

1.

(Beraisa) Suggestion: Perhaps one is Yotzei Matzah with Lachmei Todah or Rekikei Nazir!

2.

Rejection: "Shiv'as Yomim Matzos Tochelu" refers to Matzah that may be eaten for seven days. These may be eaten only for one day and a night.

3.

Question: We should exclude them from "Lechem Oni. These may not be eaten b'Aninus, rather, in joy!

4.

Answer: The Tana holds like R. Akiva, who expounds according to how it is written, i.e. "Ani" (of poverty. It is kneaded only with water.)

5.

Question: It should be invalid because it is Matzah Ashirah! (It is kneaded with oil.)

6.

Answer (Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak): Less than a Revi'is of oil is used for many (large) loaves. (This is not Matzah Ashirah.)

7.

Berachos 37b (Abaye): Tana d'Vei R. Yishmael says that Menachos are broken very finely, like flour. Surely, Kohanim would bless ha'Motzi!

8.

Suggestion: Perhaps they do not bless ha'Motzi!

9.

Rejection (Beraisa): If one gathered a k'Zayis of crumbs and ate it (on Pesach), if they are Matzah, he fulfills his obligation.

(b)

Rishonim

1.

Rambam (Hilchos Berachos 3:9): If a dough was kneaded with honey, oil or milk, or he mixed in spices and baked it, this is called Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin.

2.

Rambam (Hilchos Chametz 6:5): One is Yotzei with Matzah kneaded with fruit juice. However, we do not knead with wine, oil, honey or milk, for it says "Lechem Oni." If one kneaded with them and ate it, he was not Yotzei.

i.

Talmidei R. Yonah (29a DH she'Ein): Rashi says that Kisnin is parched grain. The custom was that after eating it, one eats a certain kind of bread with much spice. (This bread is Ba b'Kisnin, i.e. comes with Kisnin.) Due to the spices, it was not normal to eat so much of it. R. Chananel says that Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin is a dough made with a pocket, and they put in it almonds, honey, and sweet things.

(c)

Poskim

1.

Shulchan Aruch (OC 168:7): Some say that Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin is made like pockets, filled with honey, sugar, nuts or spices.

i.

Beis Yosef (DH u'Mah she'Piresh): Also the Aruch and Rashba wrote like R. Yonah brought from R. Chananel.

ii.

Mishnah Berurah (28): Presumably, this is when the filling can be tasted in the dough.

iii.

Kaf ha'Chayim (54): The Shlah says that if they were filled with meat or fish, which normally accompany bread, this is like absolute bread.

2.

Shulchan Aruch (ibid.): Some say that it is a dough in which were mixed honey, oil, milk or spices and it was baked, and the mixture of fruit juice or spices is recognized in the dough.

i.

Beis Yosef (DH veha'Rambam): It seems that the Rambam discusses when it was kneaded with only a little water. If there was much water, even if there were also other liquids, since they are the minority, they are Batel to the water, and it is considered bread in every way. This is why he said that it was kneaded with honey as opposed to 'honey was put into it.' However, he says 'or there is a mixture of spices', and they are a small amount, and they uproot it from the Berachah of ha'Motzi. A proof is a dough kneaded with fruit juice. Even though Chalah must be separated (Chalah 2:2), one blesses on it ha'Motzi only if he fixed his meal on it. This shows that it does not depend on what is called bread. Rather, Chachamim fixed to bless ha'Motzi and Birkas ha'Mazon even for a k'Zayis only for bread that people normally fix meals on, i.e. a dough kneaded only with water. If there is any mixture of fruit juice or spices, since people do not fix on it, Chachamim obligate ha'Motzi and Birkas ha'Mazon only if he ate as much as people normally fix meals on. This is if one can taste the mixture in the dough, like the case of spices. This [way to explain the Rambam] seems primary.

ii.

Taz (6): Rashi explains that Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin is kneaded with water, but it is filled with sugar, honey or nuts. The same applies to a dough doubled over and filled with sesame, fruits, meat or fish. The second opinion (in the Shulchan Aruch) is the Rambam, who holds that the dough itself is kneaded with honey or spices.

iii.

Magen Avraham (16): The Rambam himself (Hilchos Chametz 6:5) says that one is Yotzei eating Matzah even if it was kneaded with fruit juice! (This shows that it is called bread, for it says "Lechem Oni.") Berachos 37b and the Rambam (6:7) connote that what is bread regarding Matzah is bread regarding ha'Motzi. Also, if so one could be Yotzei Matzah without needing to say Birkas ha'Mazon. Siman 188:7 connotes unlike this. Perhaps the Rambam discusses only if it was kneaded with honey, oil or milk. The Rambam agrees that one is not Yotzei such Matzah, for it is Matzah Ashirah. If it was kneaded with other fruit juice, one blesses ha'Motzi and Birkas ha'Mazon. They do not uproot it from being bread. Wine is like honey. Alternatively, we can say that here we discuss when there is no water at all. The Rambam says 'he kneaded it with honey or mixed in spices.' There he discusses when there is some water, like the Magid Mishneh says. Why did the Beis Yosef change the Rambam's words to say 'he mixed in honey...'? The Rema's opinion is primary.

iv.

Mishnah Berurah (29): It was mixed in at the time of kneading. Even if the majority was water, since these additions changed the taste, it is called Pas Kisnin.

v.

Mishnah Berurah (30): If saffron or a little cinnamon is added for taste or decoration, all agree that this is proper bread.

vi.

Kaf ha'Chayim (57): The same applies if they were kneaded with any liquid other than water, even raisin wine or beer, since the taste and appearance of the water changed. Some say that gravy is different. I am unsure. If it was kneaded with gravy, one should eat it in a meal and intend that ha'Motzi exempt it, or fix his meal on them.

3.

Rema: Some say that this is proper bread, unless there are so much spices or honey that they are primary. This is the custom.

i.

Taz (7): If there is much honey or milk and only a little water, all agree that this is Kisnin. If there is only a little butter or milk, even if it is tasted, this is proper bread. Therefore, it is fine to use Shmaltz Kuchen (lard cakes) for Lechem Mishneh, since there is only a little lard. The Rema argues only about a dough with a minority of spices or honey that is tasted. The Bach says that the Maharshal says that also on cake one blesses Borei Minei Mezonos only if there are more spices or honey than flour. This is a lone opinion. We are not concerned for it.

ii.

Mishnah Berurah (34): The Acharonim hold like the Rema. The custom is to bake loaves for Lechem Mishneh with a little oil and spices.

iii.

Kaf ha'Chayim (60): Likewise, if there are a few raisins, they are separate and not mixed, so one blesses ha'Motzi.

iv.

Bi'ur Halachah (DH Harbeh): Also when it is kneaded with eggs, the majority must be eggs, so they are tasted very much. Many buy small cakes kneaded with mostly water and a little honey or eggs, and bless Borei Minei Mezonos and eat them without Netilas Yadayim. Sometimes they eat the amount on which people fix a meal. Even for real Kisnin, this obligates Netilah, ha'Motzi and Birkas ha'Mazon! Other cakes are kneaded with without any honey or eggs, just they are kneaded with water in which oats were cooked. I do not see how this uproots the taste from the dough! Even if one tasted the oats, this would not uproot the law of bread. Even if several of the five grains were mixed together, the result will be bread. (A dough kneaded with) oil, honey and eggs is different. It is like sweets eaten for dessert, for they have an esteemed taste.

v.

Igros Moshe (OC 3:33): The Mishnah Berurah says not to bless after cakes eaten after Kidush before the meal. Even if he does not eat them during the meal, perhaps they are really bread, and Birkas ha'Mazon exempts them. I say that the Beis Yosef's Safek was only when there is a little honey and spices. The Rema calls it Vadai bread. When there is much honey and sweeteners, the Rema calls it Vadai Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin. Also the Taz and Gra connote like this. The Taz calls the Maharshal a lone opinion (to bless Mezonos only if the spices and honey are primary and there is only a minority of flour). Rather, (as long as there is much honey and sweeteners) it is Vadai Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin. Perhaps the Mishnah Berurah was stringent for Maharshal's opinion, since the Bach brought others who say so. Even they would agree about cakes in the U.S., for the sugar, eggs and oil are almost a majority over the flour.

vi.

Bi'ur Halachah (DH she'Kim'at): On Purim, people make a dough filled with sesame (Hamantashen). It is bread unless the sesame is tasted more than the dough. Usually, this is not the case. Also, nowadays it is not made for dessert and a treat, like the Rishonim say about Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin. Rather, it is for satiation. It is proper bread. The Graz says so. Perhaps it was made differently in the days of the Taz, just for dessert.

4.

Shulchan Aruch (ibid.): Some say that it is bread, whether or not it was seasoned, made like thick, dry biscuits, and one is Koses (chews) them. The Halachah follows all of these. They all get the law of Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin.

i.

Beis Yosef (DH v'Rashi): The Aruch brought from Rav Hai Gaon that Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin is k'Achin, i.e. like dry biscuits, whether or not it is spiced. People eat it in and outside the drinking hall. People normally eat a little. A proof for this Perush is the Targum of "(v'Chol Lechem Tzidam Yavesh) Hayah Nekudim." It is "Havah Kisnin."

ii.

Taz (8): These are arranged nicely like buns. They are for taste, and for satiation. I say that if the filling was removed from Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin and just the dough was left, it is still like Kisnin. This is why it says "Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin", as opposed to Stam Pas Kisnin. It depends only on at the time of baking.

iii.

Magen Avraham (18): The Bach says that all agree that filled Kreplach are Pas ha'Ba b'Kisnin.

iv.

Gra (DH v'Yesh): The Tosefta (4:4) connotes like Perush ha'Rishonim. It says that one blesses on Targima 'Borei Minei Kisnin.' (This is unlike this third opinion in the Mechaber. I do not see that it favors one of the first two opinions over the other. Perhaps both are called "Perush ha'Rishonim" as opposed to this opinion, which is of a Gaon - PF.) However, the Rosh's text says 'Borei Minei Mezonos.'

v.

Mishnah Berurah (35): These are like biscuits. They are made only with grain and water, but they are so dry that they crumble. This is not called eating, rather, Koses.

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