1)
(a)How much margin of error does Rava allow each witness ...
1. ... according to Rebbi Meir? and how does he explain their opinion?
2. ... according to Rebbi Yehudah? and how does he explain their opinion?
1)
(a)Rava allows a margin of error ...
1. ... according to Rebbi Meir - a fraction short of two hours. The murder took place either at the beginning of the second hour or at the end of the third, and one of the witnesses erred by that fraction short of two hours.
2. ... according to Rebbi Yehudah - a fraction short of three hours. The murder really took place either at the beginning of the third hour or at the end of the fifth, and one of the witnesses erred by that fraction short of three hours.
2)
(a)What are the seven Chakiros?
(b)What are the Bedikos?
(c)What is the Halachic difference between the two, and what is the reason for this?
(d)If the witnesses are permitted such a large margin of error, then why is the Chakirah of the hour when the murder took place, not considered a testimony that is not subject to Hazamah?
2)
(a)The seven Chakiros are: 1. which cycle of Shemitah; 2. which year of that cycle; 3. which month; 4. which date; 5. which day of the week; 6. which hour in the day; 7. which location.
(b)The Bedikos are questions such as 'Do you recognize the murderer'? 'Did you warn him'? 'With what did he kill him'? and 'What was he wearing'? (Note: Other Rishonim call all of these but the last one 'Derishos', which have the same Din as Chakiros.)
(c)If either of the witnesses claims that he does not know the answer to any of the seven Chakiros, then the entire testimony is disqualified - since it now becomes an 'Eidus she'I Ata Yachol Lehazimah', which is unacceptable; whereas if the same thing happened by the Bedikos, their testimony would be accepted. It would only be disqualified if there was actually a discrepancy in their testimonies.
(d)Granted, the witnesses are permitted such a large margin of error - nevertheless beyond that span (i.e. from the beginning of the first hour until the end of the fifth - according to Rebbi Meir, and to the end of the sixth - according to Rebbi Yehudah), Hazamah is effective.
3)
(a)Why do we not allow the hour before dawn-break to the witness who said that the murder took place in the second hour - according to Rebbi Meir?
(b)And why do we not allow the seventh hour to the witness who said that the murder took place in the fifth hour according to Rebbi Yehudah?
3)
(a)We do not allow the hour before dawn-break to the witness who said that the murder took place in the second hour, according to Rebbi Meir - because people do not tend to err between day and night (so that cannot be considered a margin of error).
(b)Nor do we allow the seventh hour to the witness who said that the murder took place in the fifth hour, according to Rebbi Yehudah - because there too, the seventh hour cannot be included in the margin of error, since in the fifth hour, the sun is still in the east, whereas in the seventh, it is already in the west.
12b----------------------------------------12b
4)
(a)In our Mishnah, Rebbi Meir forbade eating Chametz in the sixth hour, and Rebbi Yehudah even in the fifth. According to Abaye, why did Chazal not allow eating up to the end of the sixth hour according to Rebbi Meir, or up to five and a half hours or at least till the end of the fifth, according to Rebbi Yehudah?
4)
(a)The small margin of error that Rebbi Meir and Rebbi Yehudah allow for, according to Abaye - is confined to witnesses, who gear themselves to give accurate testimony, but this does not apply to other areas of Halachah. By Chametz therefore, Rebbi Meir expects people to err by one hour, and Rebbi Yehudah, by two.
5)
(a)According to Rava, how can Rebbi Meir permit eating in the fifth hour? Why are we not afraid that perhaps one will make a mistake of two hours, and eat Chametz in the seventh hour?
(b)In that case, why can one not eat in the sixth hour, when the sun has not yet reached the west?
5)
(a)Rebbi Meir is not afraid that, if eating in the fifth hour is permitted, perhaps one will make a mistake of two hours, and eat Chametz in the seventh hour - because in the fifth hour the sun is still in the east, whereas in the seventh, it is already in the west, so that a person is unlikely to confuse them.
(b)In the sixth hour however, when the sun is in the middle of the sky, and there is really not much difference between its position then, and its position in the seventh hour, one is prone to confuse the two times; Rebbi Meir therefore agrees that eating Chametz in the sixth hour is forbidden.
6)
(a)According to Rava, who holds in Rebbi Yehudah that a person is capable of erring up to three hours, why does Rebbi Yehudah not forbid eating Chametz already from the fourth hour?
(b)Then why may one not even eat in the fifth hour - according to Abaye, who explains Rebbi Yehudah according to Rava's interpretation?
(c)Rava initially explains that Rebbi Yehudah forbids the fifth hour in order that people should collect fire-wood to burn their Chametz in the sixth hour. What is the Kashya on this contention from the Beraisa, where Rebbi Yehudah differentiates between 'she'Lo b'Sha'as Bi'uro' and 'be'Sha'as Bi'uro'?
6)
(a)According to Rava, Rebbi Yehudah does not forbid eating Chametz already from the fourth hour - because if, as we just said, a person will not confuse the fifth hour with the seventh, then he will certainly not confuse the fourth.
(b)Abaye explains (according to how we currently understand Rava) that one may not then eat Chametz even in the fifth hour - because (as he stated earlier, even according to Rebbi Meir - see question 4) the small margin of error that Rebbi Yehudah permits is restricted to testimony, but by Chametz, where people are not necessarily geared to that degree of accuracy, he allows for a margin of two hours.
(c)Rebbi Yehudah in the Beraisa, differentiates between 'She'lo b'Sha'as Bi'uro' (during the sixth hour, when the Torah still permits Chametz to be eaten), when he requires the Chametz to be burnt, and 'be'Sha'as Bi'uro' (after the sixth hour, when the Chametz must be destroyed Min ha'Torah). There, he concedes that one should destroy it by any available means (see Tosfos DH 'Eimasai'). now, if Rebbi Yehudah's reason is just to allow people to gather fire-wood, why should Chazal have bothered everyone to go to the trouble of collecting fire-wood to burn the Chametz before mid-day, when they could just as well wait until after mid-day, and destroy it by any means at their disposal.
7)
(a)How does Rava Finally explain Rebbi Yehudah?
(b)Then why does Rebbi Yehudah permit the fourth hour?
(c)According to the Beraisa, the fourth hour is when the workers eat, the fifth hour, the Talmidei-Chachamim, and the sixth hour, most people. How do we reconcile this with Rebbi Yehudah, whom we have just quoted as saying that most people eat in the fourth hour?
(d)How does the Beraisa describe someone who eats only later than that, and when does this not apply?
7)
(a)Rava finally explains that Rebbi Yehudah forbids the fifth hour because - even though we have already said that, due to the positioning of the sun, a person will not confuse the fifth hour with the seventh, we must nevertheless take into account the contingency of a cloudy day, when the possibility of confusing the hours exists.
(b)Such an error however, however, will not occur in the fourth hour, which is the time that most people eat (so it is easy to discern the fourth hour by the rumbling in their stomach.
(c)According to Rav Papa - the Beraisa must have been misquoted; the correct version is: the fourth hour is when most people eat, the fifth hour, the workers, and the sixth hour, the Talmidei-Chachamim.
(d)Eating after that time, says the Beraisa - is as valueless as throwing a stone into a flask. However, that is only if he did not eat something in the morning.
8)
(a)Rav Ashi says that in the same way as Rebbi Meir and Rebbi Yehudah argue by Eidus, so too do they argue by Chametz. What might we otherwise have thought?
(b)What in effect, is Rav Ashi teaching us?
8)
(a)Had Rav Ashi not told us that in the same way as Rebbi Meir and Rebbi Yehudah argue by Eidus, so too do they argue by Chametz (that Rebbi Meir allows a margin of error of two hours and Rebbi Yehudah, of three) - we would have thought that our Tana disagrees with the Tana in Sanhedrin, allowing only a margin of error of one hour according to Rebbi Meir, and of two, according to Rebbi Yehudah.
(b)Rav Ashi is simply corroborating all the explanations that we gave throughout the Sugya. (Note: This statement appears to hold like Abaye in 6b.)
9)
(a)If one witness testifies that the murder took place before sunrise, and the other witness says, after sunrise, will their testimony be accepted?
(b)If one of the witnesses says that the murder took place before sunrise, and the other one said, during sunrise, that their testimony is not acceptable. Why would we have thought that it would be?
9)
(a)If one witness says that the murder took place before sunrise, and the other witness says, after sunrise - their testimony is disqualified.
(b)We would have thought that if one of the witnesses says that the murder took place before sunrise, and the other one said, during sunrise, that their testimony is acceptable - because really, it took place after sunrise, only the witness who said during sunrise, did not get a good view of the sun.