(a)Rav Chananyah bar Shalmayah concurs with Rav Huna, who in the name of Rav, just permitted preparing the neck for Shechitah in the way prescribed by our Mishnah (even though it may result in Tolesh). We query this however, from another ruling of Rav. What does Rav Shimi bar Chiya Amar Rav say about wrapping flax shavings and rags round a leaking tap of a barrel containing liquid on Yom-Tov?
(b)We answer by citing Abaye and Rava. Why, according to them, will even Rebbi Shimon (who permits Davar she'Ein Miskaven on Shabbos and Yom-Tov), concede to the latter ruling of Rav?
(c)We have another problem however. Shmuel rules like Rebbi Shimon regarding Davar she'Ein Miskaven. How does Rav hold? What is then the problem?
(d)So we conclude that Rav holds Davar she'Ein Miskaven, Asur even though he holds Tolesh La'av Haynu Gozez. Then why does he permit preparing the neck of the animal in the way prescribed by our Mishnah, on Shabbos, even though he is guilty of Oker Davar mi'Gidulo (as we explained)?
1)
(a)Rav Chananyah bar Shalmayah concurs with Rav Huna, who in the name of Rav, just permitted preparing the neck for Shechitah in the way prescribed by our Mishnah (even though it may result in Tolesh). We query this however, from Rav Shimi bar Chiya Amar Rav - who forbids wrapping flax shavings and rags tightly round a leaking tap of a barrel containing liquid on Yom-Tov - in case he comes to squeeze out some liquid in the process (even though he did not intend to do so).
(b)We answer by citing Abaye and Rava, according to whom even Rebbi Shimon (who permits Davar she'Ein Miskaven on Shabbos and Yom-Tov) will concede to the latter ruling of Rav - because it is inevitable (P'sik Reisha ve'Lo Yamus).
(c)We have another problem however, in that although Shmuel rules like Rebbi Shimon regarding Davar she'Ein Miskaven - Rav, rules like Rebbi Yehudah (who holds 'Davar she'Ein Miskaven, Asur'), in which case, back comes the question as to why Rav permits the above procedure on Yom-Tov.
(d)So we conclude that Rav holds Davar she'Ein Miskaven, Asur even though he holds Tolesh La'av Haynu Gozez. And the reason that he permits preparing the neck of the animal in the way prescribed by our Mishnah, on Shabbos (even though he is guilty of Oker Davar mi'Gidulo (as we explained) is - because, since he transgresses ke'le'Achar Yad (in an unconventional manner), which involves only an Isur de'Rabbanan, the Chachamim permitted it under the circumstances.
2)
(a)We have a problem with the last ruling too, however, from a Beraisa which discusses someone who plucks a feather from the wing of a bird, clips off the end and trims it on Shabbos. How many Chata'os is he Chayav to bring?
(b)According to Resh Lakish, which Melachah does he perform when he ...
1. ... plucks it?
2. ... clips off the end?
3. ... trims it?
(c)How do we reconcile this with Rav, who does not equate Tolesh with Gozez?
2)
(a)We have a problem with the last ruling too however, from a Beraisa which discusses someone who plucks a feather from the wing of a bird, clips off the end and trims it on Shabbos. The Tana obligates him to bring three Chata'os.
(b)According to Resh Lakish ...
1. ... plucking is Asur - because of Gozez (shearing) ...
2. ... clipping off the end - because of Mechatech (cutting to size), and ...
3. ... trimming - because of Memachek (smoothening).
(c)We reconcile this with Rav, who does not equate Tolesh with Gozez - by differentiating between Tolesh of wool, which is unconventional, and Tolesh of feathers, which is the way that one normally detaches feathers (and which is therefore a branch of Tolesh).
3)
(a)We assume that since Rav holds like Rebbi Yossi ben ha'Meshulam (that Tolesh is not the same as Gozez), the latter also holds like Rav (with regard to Davar she'Eino Miskaven). What does Rebbi Yossi ben ha'Meshulam rule in a case where a Parah Adumah has two hairs which are red at the roots, but black on top?
(b)What problem do we now have with this?
(c)How do we counter it? Why do we think that a cow is different?
(d)We reject this answer however, from a Beraisa. What does the Tana learn from the 'Vav' of "ve'Lo" (in the Pasuk in Re'ei) "Lo Sa'avod bi'Vechor Shorecha ve'Lo Sagoz B'chor Tzonecha")?
3)
(a)We assume that since Rav holds like Rebbi Yossi ben ha'Meshulam (that Tolesh is not the same as Gozez), the latter also holds like Rav (with regard to Davar she'Eino Miskaven). In a case where a Parah Adumah has two hairs which are red at the roots, but black on top - Rebbi Yossi ben ha'Meshulam permits cutting off the tops of the hairs using regular shears.
(b)The problem with this is that - according to Rav (with whose opinion Rebbi Yossi ben ha'Meshulam purportedly concurs), it ought to be forbidden, because of Davar she'Ein Miskaven (even though he did not intend to shear it at all).
(c)And we counter it - by distinguishing between a sheep (which is normally shorn) and a cow (which is not) in which case, it is not considered Gozez.
(d)We reject this answer however, from a Beraisa, which learns from the 'Vav' of "ve'Lo" (in the Pasuk in Re'ei) "Lo Sa'avod bi'Vechor Shorecha ve'Lo Sagoz B'chor Tzonecha") that - the prohibition of working extends to a sheep, and that of shearing, to a cow.
4)
(a)So we suggest that Parah Adumah is different and the Isur of shearing does not apply to it. What makes Parah Adumah different than B'chor in this regard?
(b)We refute this suggestion too however, on the basis of a statement by Rebbi Elazar. What did Rebbi Elazar say about Kodshei Bedek ha'Bayis?
(c)We therefore conclude that Parah is different, because it is not common. So what if it is isn't?
4)
(a)So we suggest that Parah is different in this regard and the Isur of shearing does not apply to it - because it is Kodshei Bedek ha'Bayis (whereas B'chor is Kodshei Mizbe'ach).
(b)We refute this suggestion too however, on the basis of a statement by Rebbi Elazar, who rules - that Kodshei Bedek ha'Bayis may not be shorn (albeit mi'de'Rabbanan).
(c)We therefore conclude that Parah Adumah is different, because it is not common - and therefore the Chachamim did not include it in the decree together other animals belonging to Bedek ha'Bayis.
5)
(a)We ask why the Parah Adumah should not be redeemed and shorn, before declaring it Hekdesh a second time. Why is it not practical to do that?
(b)What does Shmuel say about Hekdesh worth a Manah that one redeemed for a Perutah?
(c)Then why can one not rely on this leniency in the current case?
(d)How do we finally establish Rebbi Yossi ben ha'Meshulam's Heter to cut the Parah with shears, even though Rav holds like him regarding Tolesh?
5)
(a)We reject the suggestion that the Parah should be redeemed and shorn, before declaring it Hekdesh a second time - on account of the fact that, due to its astronomical cost, it is not practical to do that.
(b)Shmuel - permits be'Hana'ah, Hekdesh worth a Manah that one redeemed for a Perutah.
(c)However this cannot rely on this leniency in the current case - since Shmuel only permitted it Bedi'eved, but not Lechatchilah.
(d)Finally, to explain why Rebbi Yossi ben ha'Meshulam permits shearing the Parah with shears, we answer that - even though Rav holds like him regarding Tolesh, he does not hold like Rav regarding Davar she'Ein Miskaven.
6)
(a)Rav Asi Amar Resh Lakish confines the preparation of the B'chor to doing it by hand. How does he then amend the words 'Oseh Lo Makom be'Kupitz'?
(b)We ask whether, when our Mishnah says 've'Chein Tolesh es ha'Sa'ar Lir'os Mum', the Tana means that one is permitted to do it Lechatchilah, like one is by the Shechitah of a B'chor. What else might 've'Chein' mean?
(c)Rebbi Yirmiyah resolves the She'eilah from a Beraisa. What does the Tana say about someone who takes his blemished animal to a Chacham for inspection.
(d)How does Rav Mari prove this from the Mishnah itself? Why can 've'Chein' not pertain to the subsequent prohibition of moving the wool from its place?
6)
(a)Rav Asi Amar Resh Lakish confines the preparation of the B'chor to doing it by hand, and he amends the words 'Oseh Lo Makom be'Kupitz' to 'Oseh Lo Makom le'Kupitz' (see Tosfos 24b DH 'ha'Shochet').
(b)We ask whether, when our Mishnah says 've'Chein Tolesh es ha'Sa'ar Lir'os Mum', the Tana means that it is permitted to do so Lechatchilah, like it is by the Shechitah of a B'chor. 've'Chein' - might also refer to the Seifa, meaning that if one did prepare the neck for inspection in this way, one is subsequently forbidden to move the detached wool from its place.
(c)Rebbi Yirmiyah resolves the She'eilah from a Beraisa - which specifically permits someone who takes his blemished animal to a Chacham for inspection, to prepare the neck for inspection Lechatchilah, as in our Mishnah.
(d)Rav Mari proves this from the Mishnah itself, because it would not be necessary to teach us the prohibition of moving the wool from its place - because if that is forbidden in the Reisha, where the Shechitah is already evidence of his motives for having inadvertently performed Tolesh, how much more so in the Seifa, where there is nothing to demonstrate his innocent motives.
25b----------------------------------------25b
7)
(a)Our Mishnah discusses the hair of a B'chor Beheimah Ba'al-Mum that fell out, and that one placed on the window-sill. According to Rebbi Yehudah, Akavya ben Mahalalel permits it once the animal has been Shechted (see Tosfos Amud 1 DH 'Sa'ar'). On what grounds do the Chachamim forbid it?
(b)Rebbi Yossi maintains that it is not the hair of a B'chor Ba'al-Mum that was Shechted that Akavya permitted. Then what was it?
7)
(a)Our Mishnah discusses the hair of a B'chor Beheimah Ba'al-Mum that fell out, and that one placed on the window-sill. According to Rebbi Yehudah, Akavya ben Mahalalel permits it once the animal has been Shechted (see Tosfos Amud 1 DH 'Sa'ar'). The Chachamim forbid it - in case one then takes advantage of the Heter to keep the animal alive in order to cut the hair (or the wool) whenever it grows and benefit from it, or to work it (and Lechatchilah Pesulei ha'Mukdashin may only be Shechted and eaten).
(b)Rebbi Yossi maintains that it is not the hair of a B'chor Ba'al-Mum that was Shechted that Akavya permitted - but the hair of one that died by itself.
8)
(a)What is Tzemer ha'Meduvlal?
(b)What distinction does the Tana draw between Tzemer ha'Meduvlal that looks like it is part of the wool that was shorn after the Shechitah and Tzemer ha'Meduvlal that does not?
(c)Why does the Mishnah cite this ruling here? Like which of the above Tana'im does it go?
8)
(a)Tzemer ha'Meduvlal is - the wool of a B'chor Ba'al-Mum that became detached but that remained stuck to the animal.
(b)The Tana permits Tzemer ha'Meduvlal that looks like it is part of the wool that was shorn after the Shechitah - but forbids it if it does not.
(c)The Mishnah cites this ruling here - because it is a S'tam Mishnah like the Chachamim.
9)
(a)What problem do we have with Rebbi Yossi's statement 'Lo ba'Zeh Hitir Akavya ... '?
(b)How do we therefore amend it?
(c)On what grounds do the Chachamim then agree with Akavya by 'va'Achar-kach Shachto'?
(d)Rebbi Asi Amar Resh Lakish qualifies the Machlokes between Akavya and the Chachamim by restricting it to where a Chacham had already examined the Mum before the hair fell out. What does he say in a case where he had not?
9)
(a)The problem with Rebbi Yossi's statement 'Lo ba'Zeh Hitir Akavya ... ' is that - if Akavya permits the hair of a B'chor Ba'al-Mum that died, how could he possibly forbid that of one that has been Shechted?
(b)We therefore amend it to read that - the Machlokes does not pertain to a B'chor Ba'al-Mum that was Shechted (where the Chachamim concede that it is permitted), but to one that died.
(c)And the Chachamim agree with Akavyain the former case - because, since the Shechitah permits the wool that is attached, it also permits the wool that is detached ('Migu').
(d)Rebbi Asi Amar Resh Lakish qualifies the Machlokes between Akavya and the Chachamim by restricting it to where a Chacham had already examined the Mum before the hair fell out. If he had not - then even Akavya will concede that the hair that fell out is Asur (like a Tam [an unblemished animal], which will be discussed later]).
10)
(a)Rav Sheishes queries Rebbi Asi from a Beraisa. How do we initially interpret the word/s of ...
1. ... the Tana Kama 'Ba'alei Mumin Osrin be'Chol-Sh'hu'?
2. ... Rebbi Yossi 'Yevukar'?
(b)What problem do we have with Rebbi Yossi's ruling?
(c)Rav Nachman Amar Rabah bar Avuhah therefore establishes the Machlokes by wool of a B'chor Ba'al-Mum which fell out before the Shechitah and which was placed on the window-sill before it became mixed up with Chulin wool. How do we now interpret 'Yevukar'?
(d)What is then the basis of the Machlokes between the Tana Kama and Rebbi Yossi?
(e)Who is the Tana Kama?
10)
(a)Rav Sheishes queries Rebbi Asi from a Beraisa. Initially, we interpret the word/s of ...
1. ... the Tana Kama 'Ba'alei Mumin Osrin be'Chol-Sh'hu' - to mean - that even if one Ba'al-Mum becomes mixed up in a thousand Temimim, they are all forbidden.
2. ... Rebbi Yossi 'Yevukar' that - one examines the animals until one finds the Ba'al-Mum, which one then removes, permitting all the Temimim.
(b)The problem with Rebbi Yosi's ruling is that - there is then no reason for the Tana Kama to disagree with it.
(c)Rav Nachman Amar Rabah bar Avuhah therefore establishes the Machlokes by wool of a B'chor Ba'al-Mum which fell out before the Shechitah and which was placed on the window-sill before it became mixed up with Chulin wool, in which case, we will interpret 'Yevukar' to mean that - we give the animal to a Chacham to examine as to whether it is a fixed Mum or not.
(d)If he does - Rebbi Yossi then permits it (like he does in our Mishnah), whereas the Tana Kama still forbids it.
(e)The Tana Kama is Rebbi Yehudah (of our Mishnah).
11)
(a)What do we extrapolate from Rebbi Yossi?
(b)Why does this present Rebbi Asi Amar Resh Lakish with a problem?
(c)To resolve the problem, how does Rava reinterpret 'Yevukar'?
11)
(a)We extrapolate from Rebbi Yossi that - according to the Chachamim, the Shechitah permits the wool that fell out, even if a Chacham examined the B'chor only after it fell out ...
(b)... a Kashya on Rebbi Asi Amar Resh Lakish - in that whatever the Rabbanan permit by a Shechutah, Akavya permits even by one that dies by itself.
(c)To resolve the problem, Rava reinterpret 'Yevukar' to mean that - we examine what the Chacham said (provided the examination of the animal took place before the wool fell out).
12)
(a)What did Rebbi Yirmiyah comment about Rav Nachman and Rabah bar Avuhah, based on the fact that they (the Bavli'im) lived in a rather dark environment (since Bavel was surrounded by mountains)? What did he refer to them as?
(b)He disagreed with the Rav Nachman's interpretation of the previous Beraisa ('be'Gizas B'chor Ba'al-Mum Askinan'), citing Rebbi Chiya bar Aba Amar Rebbi Yochanan, who connected the Machlokes between the Tana Kama and Rebbi Yossi to a Mishnah in Nidah, where Rebbi Meir learns that if a pile containing a k'Zayis min ha'Meis got lost, then all the piles in the field are Tamei (even if they searched for it but failed to find it). What do the Chachamim say?
(c)Based on that Machlokes, how does Rebbi Yochanan now interpret Rebbi Yossi's 'Yevukar'? With whose opinion does ...
1. ... Rebbi Yossi concur?
2. ... the Tana Kama concur?
12)
(a)Based on the fact that the Bavli'im lived in a rather dark environment (since it was surrounded by mountains), and referring to them as those stupid Babylonians, Rebbi Yirmiyah commented that - it was not because they came from a dark place that Rav Nachman and Rabah bar Avuhah had to make dark statements (that were not enlightening).
(b)He disagreed with the Rav Nachman's interpretation of the previous Beraisa ('be'Gizas B'chor Ba'al-Mum Askinan'), citing Rebbi Chiya bar Aba Amar Rebbi Yochanan, who connected the Machlokes between the Tana Kama and Rebbi Yossi to a Mishnah in Nidah, where Rebbi Meir learns there that if a pile of earth containing a k'Zayis min ha'Meis got lost, then all the piles in the field are Tamei (even if they searched for it but failed to find it). Whereas the Chachamim say that - having searched for it as far as a rock or virgin soil, and not finding it, all the piles are permitted.
(c)Based on that Machlokes, Rebbi Yochanan now interprets Rebbi Yossi's 'Yevukar' to mean that - they search the entire herd for the animal with a blemish, and the herd then becomes permitted even if they did not find it. In which case ...
1. ... Rebbi Yossi concurs - with the Chachamim, and ...
2. ... the Tana Kama - with Rebbi Meir.
13)
(a)Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan too, interprets 'Yevukar' to mean that they search for the Ba'al-Mum. In which point does he then disagree with Rebbi Chiya bar Aba?
(b)He then connects this Machlokes with a Machlokes between Rebbi and Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel in a Beraisa. In the case that is discussed in the Mishnah in Nidah, where they searched and found a grave), Rebbi rules that one assumes the grave that is found to be the lost one, and one does not need to continue searching. What does Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel say?
(c)How does Rebbi Yochanan then interpret 'Yevukar'?
(d)In that case, with whose opinion does ...
1. ... Rebbi Yossi concur?
2. ... the Tana Kama concur?
13)
(a)Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan too, interprets 'Yevukar' to mean that they search for the Ba'al-Mum - only according to him, they are arguing over a case where they did find it.
(b)In the case that is discussed in the Mishnah in Nidah, where they searched and found a grave), Rebbi rules that one assumes the grave that is found to be the lost one, and one does not need to continue searching. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel however, maintains that - one must continue to search the entire field, and only if they do not find another one may they assume that the one they found is the lost one.
(c)Rebbi Yochanan then interprets 'Yevukar' to mean that - one searches for a Ba'al-Mum, and the moment one finds one, the search is called off.
(d)In that case ...
1. ... Rebbi Yossi concurs - with Rebbi, and ...
2. ... the Tana Kama - with Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel.
14)
(a)On what grounds does ...
1. ... Rebbi Asi disagree with Rebbi Chiya bar Aba? If Rebbi Yossi will hold like the Chachamim and make do with a search of the field for the Tum'ah, why will he not automatically say the same in the case of a B'chor Ba'al Mum that got lost.
2. ... Rebbi Chiya bar Aba disagree with Rebbi Asi? If the Tana Kama holds like Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel regarding a field in which they found a grave, why will he not necessarily hold the same in the case of the B'chor Ba'al Mum that got lost?
(b)How does
1. ... Rebbi Chiya bar Aba counter Rebbi Asi's argument? Why might even a blemish disappear?
2. ... Rebbi Asi counter Rebbi Chiya bar Aba's argument? How is it easily possible for an animal to become blemished?
14)
(a)Rebbi ...
1. ... Asi disagrees with Rebbi Chiya bar Aba, because - even if Rebbi Yossi holds like the Chachamim and makes do with a search of the field for the Tum'ah, that is only because should they fail to find the k'Zayis of Meis, they can attribute its disappearance to a raven or a mouse having removed it, whereas in the case of a B'chor Ba'al Mum that got lost, if they searched and did not find it, there is no way that a Ba'al Mum can have disappeared and even Rebbi Yossi will agree with Rebbi Meir (and he will have to search for it again).
2. ... Chiya bar Aba on the other hand, disagrees with Rebbi Asi because - even if the Tana Kama holds like Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel regarding a field in which they found a grave, that is only because it is common to bury people in fields, but in the case of the B'chor Ba'al Mum that got lost, once they find the animal with the blemish, why should they suspect that it might not be the same one (and the Rabbanan will therefore agree with Rebbi).
(b)Rebbi ...
1. ... Chiya bar Aba counters Rebbi Asi's argument - inasmuch as even a blemish can disappear - if it is a passing blemish that healed.
2. ... Rebbi Asi, on the other hand, counters Rebbi Chiya bar Aba's argument - in that really it is quite simple for an animal to become blemished, during the friendly skirmishes that sometimes occur between domesticated animals.
