CHULIN 31-43 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the Yahrzeit of her father, Rav Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Rabbi Morton Weiner) Z'L, who passed away on 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Dafyomi study -- which was so important to him -- during the weeks of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.

1)

(a)Rava rules that if one Shechts a Chulin animal together with the Parah Adumah, it is Pasul. Why is that?

(b)What is the status of the second animal?

(c)According to Rebbi Nasan, the same ruling will apply if one unintentionally Shechts another animal together with the Parah Adumah. Bearing in mind that there was no Hesech ha'Da'as, on what grounds is the Parah Adumah Pasul?

(d)What will be the Din in this same case, according to the Rabbanan of Rebbi Nasan?

1)

(a)Rava rules that if one Shechts a Chulin animal together with the Parah Adumah, it is Pasul - because he performed another Melachah whilst Shechting it (which in turn, is Pasul because of Hesech ha'Da'as [taking one's mind off the Parah Adumah]).

(b)The second animal - is Kasher, since there is no reason to invalidate it.

(c)According to Rebbi Nasan, the same will apply if one Shechts a Chulin animal together with the Parah Adumah. Despite the fact that there was no Hesech ha'Da'as, the Parah Adumah is nevertheless Pasul - because of the Pasuk in Chukas "Veshachat Osah", from which Chazal extrapolate "Osah", 've'Lo Osah va'Chavertah'.

(d)In this same case, the Rabbanan of Rebbi Nasan will hold that - the Shechitah of the other animal is Pasul, in which case that of the Parah is Kasher.

2)

(a)What is Rava coming to teach us in this set of rulings, which all seem to be obvious? What might we otherwise have thought, in the case where he Shechted a Chulin animal together with the Parah Adumah, according to Rebbi Nasan?

(b)How would we have then interpreted "Veshachat Osah"?

(c)What will be the Din if, as the Shochet is Shechting a Parah Adumah ...

1. ... he deliberately cuts a gourd?

2. ... he cuts a gourd inadvertently?

2)

(a)Even though all these rulings seem to be obvious, Rava is coming to teach us that - the Parah Adumah is Pasul, according to Rebbi Nasan, even if he Shechted a Chulin animal together with the Parah Adumah, because we would otherwise have that it is Kasher ...

(b)... since "Veshachat Osah" precludes Shechting another Parah Adumah simultaneously, as 've'Lo Osah va'Chavertah' implies, but not another Chulin animal.

(c)If as the Shochet is Shechting a Parah Adumah ...

1. ... he deliberately cuts a gourd - the Parah is Pasul, even according to the Rabbanan.

2. ... he cut a gourd inadvertently - the Parah is Kasher, even according to Rebbi Nasan.

3)

(a)What does our Mishnah say about a case where, in the middle of the Shechitah ...

1. ... the Shochet's knife or his clothes fall and he picks them up, before continuing with the Shechitah?

2. ... he sharpens the knife and becomes tired, and his friend comes and concludes the Shechitah?

(b)What is the Shi'ur Shehiyah, according to Rebbi Shimon?

(c)Rav explains K'dei Shechitah to mean the time it takes to Shecht another animal. What is Rav coming to teach us? How might we have otherwise interpreted K'dei Shechitah?

3)

(a)Our Mishnah rules that in a case where in the middle of the Shechitah ...

1. ... the Sochet's knife or his clothes fall and he picks them up, before continuing with the Shechitah - the Shechitah is Kasher, provided he does not delay for as long as it takes to Shecht, and the same applies in a case where ...

2. ... he sharpens the knife and becomes tired, and his friend comes and concludes the Shechitah.

(b)The Shi'ur Shehiyah, according to Rebbi Shimon is - the time it takes to inspect the knife.

(c)Rav explains 'K'dei Shechitah' to mean the time it takes to Shecht another animal - and not the time it would have taken to complete the Shechitah that he already began.

4)

(a)Rav Kahana and Rav Asi asked Rav exactly what he meant. What might he have meant, besides gauging the Shi'ur Shechitah by the time it takes to Shecht from scratch whichever animal he is Shechting?

(b)Rav eventually replied Lechumra, like the first side of the She'eilah. Initially, he said 'Lo havah Badichna bei ba'Chavivi'. What did he mean by that? Who was Chavivi?

(c)What did Shmuel say?

(d)When Ravin came from Eretz Yisrael, he cited Rebbi Yochanan who learned like Shmuel, whereas Rebbi Chanina gave the time it takes to bring another animal and Shecht it. What problem do we have with that?

(e)How does Rav Papa therefore establish the case over which Rebbi Chanina argues with Rebbi Yochanan?

4)

(a)Rav Kahana and Rav Asi asked Rav exactly what he meant. Besides gauging the Shi'ur Shechitah by the time it takes to Shecht from scratch whichever animal he is Shechting, he might have meant that - Chazal give the standard Shi'ur Shehiyah as the Shechitah of an animal, even when Shechting a bird.

(b)Rav eventually replied Lechumra, like the first side of the She'eilah. Initially, he said 'Lo havah Badichna bei ba'Chavivi' by which he meant that - he was currently not on good terms with his uncle (and Rebbe) Rebbi Chiya, and had therefore been unable to ask him the She'eilah.

(c)Shmuel ruled - leniently, like the second side of the She'eilah.

(d)When Ravin came from Eretz Yisrael, he cited Rebbi Yochanan Lekula, too, whereas Rebbi Chanina gave the time it takes to bring another animal and Shecht it. The problem with this is that - seeing as bringing the animal depends upon where it is to begin with, this clashes with the principle Nasata Devarecha le'Shi'urim (the Chachamim do not issue rulings that differ from situation to situation).

(e)Rav Papa therefore establishes the case over which Rebbi Chanina argues with Rebbi Yochanan as - whether, one adds to the time it takes to throw it to the ground (Rebbi Chanina) or not (Rebbi Yochanan).

5)

(a)In Eretz Yisrael, they cited the opinion of Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina. How does he present the Shi'ur Shechitah?

(b)What Shi'ur Shehiyah does he give for ...

1. ... a small animal?

2. ... a large animal?

3. ... a bird?

(c)If we normally rule like Rebbi Yochanan against Shmuel and certainly against Rav, why, in this case, do we rule like Rav against Rebbi Yochanan?

(d)What does Rava say about someone who takes all day to Shecht an animal using a bad knife? What does he meant by a bad knife?

5)

(a)In Eretz Yisrael, they cited the opinion of Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina, who is the most lenient of them all regarding animals. In addition to the Shi'ur of Rebbi Chanina, he requires the time it takes to lift the animal off the ground.

(b)And he gives the Shi'ur Shehiyah of ...

1. ... a small animal as - the time it takes to Shecht a small animal.

2. ... a large animal as - the time it takes to Shecht a large animal.

3. ... a bird as - the time it takes to Shecht a bird.

(c)Even though we normally rule like Rebbi Yochanan against Shmuel and certainly against Rav, in this case, we rule like Rav against Rebbi Yochanan - since Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina concurs with him, as we just learned.

(d)Rava rules - that if someone takes all day to Shecht an animal using a bad knife (with a blunt edge, but with no defects), the Shechitah is Kasher.

6)

(a)Rava asked whether a number of Shehiyos combine to invalidate the Shechitah. Why does he not resolve this She'eilah with his previous statement?

(b)What does Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Nasan mean when he asked 'Shahah be'Miy'ut Simanim, Mahu'?

(c)Why can the She'eilah not pertain to the beginning of the Shechitah vis-a-vis ...

1. ... the Kaneh?

2. ... the Veshet?

(d)What, if after Shechting the majority of the Simanim, the animal fails to die immediately, what should the Shochet therefore ...

1. ... do?

2. ... not do?

(e)What is the outcome of the She'eilah?

6)

(a)Rava asked whether a number of Shehiyos combine to invalidate the Shechitah. The reason that he does not resolve this She'eilah with his previous statement is - because even though he is speaking there where the Shochet Shechts all day - he is also speaking where he did not pause during the Shechitah.

(b)When Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Nasan asked 'Shahah be'Miy'ut Simanim Mahu' he meant that - after having Shechted the majority of the two Simanim, the Shochet pauses before concluding the Shechitah (like we discussed earlier with regard to Chaladah).

(c)The She'eilah cannot pertain to the beginning of the Shechitah - because ...

1. ... the Kanah cannot become Pasul at that stage, whereas ...

2. ... the Veshet is Pasul mi'Mah Nafchach (either because of Shehiyah or because of Nekuvas ha'Veshet).

(d)Consequently, if after Shechting the majority of the Simanim, the animal fails to die immediately, the Shochet should ...

1. ... either chop its neck with the knife or wait until it dies by itself.

2. ... not continue to Shecht it once he has stopped.

(e)The outcome of the She'eilah is Teiku, and S'feika d'Oraysa le'Chumra as we have already learned.

7)

(a)We have already discussed the Machlokes between Rebbi Yesheivav and Rebbi Akiva in our Mishnah. If the Shochet first Shechts the Veshet and then breaks the Gargeres (Ikur) or vice-versa, or Shechts one of the Simanim and either waits until the animal dies, or performs Chaladah on the second Si'man, Rebbi Yesheivav considers the animal a Neveilah. What does Rebbi Akiva say?

(b)How does Rebbi Yesheivav citing Rebbi Yehoshua, define the distinction between a Neveilah and a T'reifah with regard to an animal that has been Shechted?

(c)Bearing in mind the principle Halachah ke'Rebbi Akiva me'Chavero, why do we rule like Rebbi Yesheivav in this case?

7)

(a)We have already discussed the Machlokes Rebbi Yesheivav and Rebbi Akiva in our Mishnah. If the Shochet first Shechts the Veshet and then breaks the Gargeres (Ikur) or vice-versa, or Shechts one of the Simanim and either waits until the animal dies, or performs Chaladah on the second Si'man, Rebbi Yesheivav considers the animal a Neveilah. According to Rebbi Akiva - it is a T'reifah.

(b)Rebbi Yesheivav citing Rebbi Yehoshua, defines the distinction between a Neveilah and a T'reifah with regard to an animal that has been Shechted - inasmuch as if the Shechitah is Pasul, it is a Neveilah, whereas if the Shechitah is Kasher, and the animal dies through other means, then it is a T'reifah.

(c)In spite of the principle Halachah ke'Rebbi Akiva me'Chavero, we rule like Rebbi Yesheivav in this case - because Rebbi Akiva himself conceded that he was right.

32b----------------------------------------32b

8)

(a)What problem does the Mishnah in Eilu T'reifos, which lists P'sukas ha'Gargeres among the Tereifos, create with our Mishnah?

(b)How does Rava resolve ...

1. ... the problem? Why is Shechting a Pesukas ha'Gargeres not comparable to the Neveilah in our Mishnah?

2. ... Rav Acha bar Huna's Kashya from our Mishnah itself, which refers to 'Pasak es ha'Gargeres ve'Achar-kach Shachat es ha'Veshet' as a Neveilah? How does he attempt to amend 've'Achar-kach Shachat es ha'Veshet'?

(c)What objection, besides the fact that the Tana specifically said ve'Achar-kach, does Rav Acha bar Huna raise on Rava's answer?

(d)So how does Rava interpret 've'Eilu Tereifos', to resolve the two Mishnahs?

8)

(a)The problem the Mishnah in Eilu T'reifos, which lists P'sukas ha'Gargeres among the Tereifos, creates with our Mishnah, is the fact that - our Mishnah considers Pesukas ha'Gargeres a Neveilah according to Rebbi Yesheivav, and since Rebbi Akiva concedes that, who is the author of the Mishnah in Eilu T'reifos?

(b)Rava resolves ...

1. ... this problem - by establishing our Mishnah where the Shochet Shechted the Veshet first, and then broke the Gargeres (rendering it the latter part of the Shechitah), whereas the Mishnah in 'Eilu Tereifos' is speaking where he broke the Gargeres first.

2. ... Rav Acha bar Huna's Kashya from our Mishnah itself, which refers to 'Pasak es ha'Gargeres ve'Achar-kach Shachat es ha'Veshet' as a Neveilah - by attempting to amend 've'Achar-kach Shachat es ha'Veshet' to 'u'Kevar Shachat es ha'Veshet'.

(c)Besides the fact that the Tana specifically says 've'Achar-kach', Rav Acha bar Huna objects to Rava's answer on the grounds that - the Tana would them merely be repeating the previous case ('Shachat es ha'Veshet u'Pasak es ha'Gargeres').

(d)To resolve the two Mishnahs, Rava therefore interprets 'Eilu T'reifos' - to mean La'av Davka Tereifos, but incorporating Neveilos too (as if the Tana had said 'Eilu Asuros').

9)

(a)What does Chizkiyah say about an animal that one makes a Gist'ra (by chopping it in two at the neck or the back, as we learned in the first Perek)?

(b)Under which circumstances does Rebbi Elazar declare an animal whose thigh has been removed, a Neveilah?

(c)According to Rava then, why does the Tana in 'Eilu T'reifos' decline to insert these two cases in the Mishnah?

9)

(a)Chizkiyah rules that an animal that one makes a Gist'ra (by chopping it in two at the neck or the back, as we learned in the first Perek) - is a Neveilah.

(b)Rebbi Elazar declares an animal whose thigh has been removed, a Neveilah - provided it is the entire thigh that has removed, plus a little bit of the hollow as well (as we learned there).

(c)And the reason that the Tana in Eilu T'reifos declines to insert these two cases in the Mishnah is - because he only inserts cases where the animal is still alive, and will die only with the termination of the convulsions; whereas these two cases are considered Neveilos me'Chayim.

10)

(a)Resh Lakish resolves the contradiction between the two Mishnahs by making it dependent upon the location where the Shochet concludes the Shechitah after breaking the majority of the Gargeres. What exactly does he say?

(b)How does *he* interpret 'Eilu T'reifos'?

(c)Resh Lakish himself says elsewhere that if one makes a hole in the lungs after having Shechted the Gargeres (to which they are attached), the animal remains Kasher. Why is that?

(d)How does this pose a Kashya on what he himself just said? What status would the animal then have if the Shochet completed the Shechitah on the Gargeres at the point where the break ended?

10)

(a)Resh Lakish resolves the contradiction between the two Mishnahs by making it dependent upon - whether the Shochet Shechts the remainder of the Gargeres at the point where the break ends (the Mishnah in 'Eilu T'reifos') or at a different point (our Mishnah).

(b)And he interprets Eilu Tereifos - literally (not like Rava).

(c)Resh Lakish himself says elsewhere that if one makes a hole in the lungs after having Shechted the Gargeres (to which they are attached), the animal remains Kasher - because having concluded the Shechitah on the Gargeres, making a hole in any part of it after that can compares to making a hole in it after it has been removed and placed in a basket.

(d)This poses a Kashya on what he himself just said - since, by the same token, having broken the majority of the Gargeres, it is as if it has been removed and placed in a basket. Consequently, if the Shochet completes the Shechitah on the Gargeres at the point where the break ends - why will it not still be a Neveilah?

11)

(a)Rebbi Chiya bar Aba Amar Rebbi Yochanan establishes the Mishnah in Eilu T'reifos like Rebbi Akiva, who considers a P'sul in the Shechitah a Tereifah. How will he then reconcile this with the Seifa of our Mishnah, where Rebbi Akiva retracted from that S'vara?

(b)How can the latter Mishnah make a statement that is no longer correct?

(c)How do we reconcile this with the principle Yesh Seider le'Mishnah, that applies in any one Masechta?

11)

(a)Rebbi Chiya bar Aba Amar Rebbi Yochanan establishes the Mishnah in Eilu Tereifos like Rebbi Akiva, who considers a P'sul in the Shechitah a T'reifah, in spite of the Seifa of our Mishnah, (where Rebbi Akiva retracted from that S'vara) - because it was learned before he retracted ...

(b)... irrespective of the fact that the latter Mishnah is no longer correct - since the Tana'im tended to retain Mishnahs the way they were originally learned, without making the change that took place later. This in turn, is because they found it easier to remember that the Mishnah is not Halachah that to relearn the text.

(c)And we reconcile this with the principle Yesh Seider le'Mishnah, that applies in any one Masechta, by confining it to S'tam ve'Achar-kach Machlokes (or vice-versa) which has to appear in the right order, since we always go after the latter.

12)

(a)What does Rava say in Resh Lakish, about a case where one makes a hole in the intestines (which are attached to the Veshet) after Shechting the Kaneh?

(b)Why is that?

(c)What objection does Rebbi Zeira raise to that?

(d)How does Rebbi Zeira explain Resh Lakish's ruling, to ask such a Kashya?

12)

(a)Rava says that, according to Resh Lakish, in a case where one makes a hole in the intestines (which are attached to the Veshet) after Shechting the Kaneh - the animal is T'reifah ...

(b)... because the intestines are not connected to the Kaneh (as the lung is). Consequently, even if we do consider the Shechted Kaneh as if it was lying in a basket, it would not prevent a subsequent hole in the lung from turning the animal into a Tereifah (seeing as the animal is still alive).

(c)Rebbi Zeira objects to that - on the grounds that if a hole in the lungs will not affect the animal once the Kaneh has been Shechted, then neither will a hole in the intestines.

(d)To ask such a Kashya, Rebbi Zeira must ascribe Resh Lakish's ruling to the fact that - once one Si'man has been Shechted, and the animal is only partially alive, we apply the principle 'Ein T'reifos le'Chatzi Chiyus' (an animal that is no longer fully alive cannot become a T'reifah).

13)

(a)Rebbi Zeira himself asked whether, if an animal's intestines are holed after its Kaneh has been Shechted, going on to Shecht its Veshet will change its status from Neveilah to T'reifah or not. Why ...

1. ... might it indeed do so?

2. ... might it not?

(b)And we connect this to the She'eilah of Ilfa, regarding a fetus that is found inside a Shechted animal, which is normally permitted through the Shechitah of its mother. What will be the Din in a case where the fetus sticks out its leg before its mother has been Shechted?

(c)Ilfa now asks what the Din will be if it sticks out the leg between the Shechitah of the Kaneh and the Veshet. What is the She'eilah?

13)

(a)Rebbi Zeira himself asked whether, if an animal's intestines are holed after its Kaneh has been Shechted, going on to Shecht its Veshet will change its status from Neveilah to T'reifah or not. It might ...

1. ... do so - due to the fact that the Shechitah of the first Si'man combines with that of the second one to be Metaher it from Tum'as Neveilah.

2. ... not however, do so - because, seeing as the Kaneh also permits the animal to be eaten (bearing in mind that, at the time, the intestines were not yet holed), whereas the Veshet no longer can, it cannot combine with the latter to be Metaher the animal from Tum'as Neveilah.

(b)And we connect this to the She'eilah of Ilfa, regarding a fetus that is found inside a Shechted animal, which is normally permitted through the Shechitah of its mother. If however, the fetus sticks out its leg before its mother has been Shechted - it (the leg) has the Din of a T'reifah Shechutah.

(c)Ilfa now asks what the Din will be if it sticks out the leg between the Shechitah of the Kaneh and the Veshet - whether the first Si'man will combine with the second to be Metaher the leg from Tum'as Neveilah or not, as we just explained in Rebbi Zeira's She'eilah.

14)

(a)We conclude that the Shechitah of the first Si'man will indeed combine with that of the second, to render the leg in Ilfa's case, and the animal in Rebbi Zeira's, a T'reifah. How about eating them?

(b)How do we try to prove from there that Rebbi Zeira retracted from what he just said?

(c)How did Rav Acha bar Rav reject this proof? If Rebbi Zeira still holds that once one Si'man has been Shechted, the animal cannot become a T'reifah, why did he ask such a She'eilah (with its implications)?

14)

(a)We conclude that the Shechitah of the first Si'man will indeed combine with that of the second, to remove Tum'as Neveiah from the leg in Ilfa's case, and from the animal in Rebbi Zeira's. They cannot however be eaten - since they remain T'reifah.

(b)We try to prove from there that Rebbi Zeira retracted from what he just said - since, if he didn't, making a hole in the intestines after the Kaneh has been Shechted, ought not to affect the animal's status.

(c)Rav Acha bar Rav however, explains that - Rebbi Zeira asked the She'eilah (in spite of his personal opinion) according to Rava, who holds that a hole in the intestines after the Kaneh has been Shechted, does render the animal a T'reifah. According to him, he asks, will the Shechitah of the Veshet at least remove the Tum'as Neveilah.

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