More Discussions for this daf
1. The Mishnah: interruptions during Shema 2. Standing in place when saying shema 3. Avram or Avraham
4. Hash-m keeps His laws; workers 5. Drashos of Rebbi and Chachamim 6. A Snake and A Lion
7. Sho'el Mipnei ha'Kavod 8. Tosofot raising questions on Rashi for Berachot perek rishon, 9. Argument of Bar Kapara and R' Shimon Berebbi
10. Interuptions - R' Meir v. R' Yehudah bottom of 13b 11. Interrupting the Shema 12. Kol Yemei Chayecha
13. Representations in the parable 14. Who Really Chooses the Child's Name? 15. Tosfos Sho'el
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 13

jeff asks:

Tosfos differentiates between bowing if you are in the middle of a brochoa or at the end because "nirah kikoreia bishvil haabracha". My question is nireh to who? Noone else can hear you so that it can't be for them and you youself know why you're bowing. And if its bbecause you bow 5 times during shmoneh esray instead of 4 then what's the difference where you are up to?

Thanks.

jeff, Woodmere, USA

The Kollel replies:

I have not found any Mefaresh who asks this question, so I will try to give my own explanation b'Ezer Hash-m.

1. It seems that we must say that in fact it is "Nir'eh" to the person reciting the Shemoneh Esreh that he is bowing because of the Berachah that he is saying and not merely in order to do what the Tzibur is doing. The reason why a person will think that there is a Mitzvah to bow down at the end of the Berachah is that he will reason that if it is true that bowing down at the beginning and end of the Berachos is forbidden (apart from the four places where we do bow down), then the Chachamim would not have waived this prohibition merely in order to do what the rest of the congregation is doing. He will reason that we do not usually permit forbidden matters merely to do what the Tzibur is doing, and therefore he will assume that there is no problem with bowing at the beginning and end of all the Berachos. He will not know that the Gemara (end of 34a) states that this in fact is forbidden.

2. This explanation finds support in the words of Talmidei Rabeinu Yonah (13a of the pages of the Rif, DH u'Minhago) who disagrees with Tosfos. Talmidei Rabeinu Yonah write that Rabeinu Yakov (Rabeinu Tam) used to bow together with the Tzibur in "Modim" so that he should not appear to be separating himself from them and refusing to accept as his Master the One to Whom the entire Tzibur is bowing. Talmidei Rabeinu Yonah write that even though the Gemara (end of 34a) states that if someone bows at the beginning or end of the berachos we instruct him not to do so, this does not apply when he has a need to do so (such as in order not to look as if he is separating himself from the community).

3. I would like to suggest that when Tosfos (13b) writes that one should not bow at the end of the Berachah because "Nir'eh k'Kore'a Bishvil ha'Berachah," his intention is to refute the opinion of Talmidei Rabeinu Yonah. We noted that Talmidei Rabeinu Yonah write that if one does not bow down when the Tzibur does, this is "Nir'eh" that he does not accept Hash-m as his Master. The stress is that it will appear to everyone that he is breaking away from the Tzibur. Tosfos now comes directly to rebut this argument and writes that, on the contrary, if he does bow at the end of the Berachah it will be worse, because it now appears to him that there is never any prohibition against doing this, even when one is not doing so merely to do as the Tzibur is doing. This is why Tosfos writes "Nir'eh"; instead of "appearing" to break from the Tzibur, it will "appear" to him that one may bow wherever in the Berachah he wants.

4. I found no other Rishon who uses the word "Nir'eh." However, the Shulchan Aruch (OC 109:1) rules like Tosfos, not like Talmidei Rabeinu Yonah. He writes that one never bows at the beginning or end of a Berachah. The Shulchan Aruch does not write why one may not do so, but we now have an explanation for this Halachah in the words of Tosfos.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom