More Discussions for this daf
1. Gam Zu l'Tovah 2. Rabbah's meaning 3. Not a Nisayon
4. Tefilah for having a son 5. Birkos ha'Shachar 6. Netilas Yadayim in Mishnah Berurah
7. The prayer for being cured 8. Concluding a blessing with two topics 9. Various questions
10. Machlokes Tana'im 11. Forty days after conception 12. A Woman Who Is "Mazra'as"
13. Leah, Shimon, Dinah 14. Morning Berachos 15. כוונה בשעת הנחת תפילין
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 60

Jeff Ram asked:

On the subject of "taking a cure" on daf 60a, in your answer page number 7a, you say that "Nowadays, we say this (b'racha) before taking any cure. Later in the gemara, we're told that we should say a b'racha upon getting up from the bloodletter's chair (your answer number 7c).

Does this idea follow the "any cure" aitza that you mentioned in 7a? And if so, would we be obligated to say "Rofe Cholim" upon completing any cure?

If the answer for nowadays is "yes", how do we draw the line between the "Rofe Cholim" b'racha upon receiving a cure, and the "ha'Gomel" b'racha when the danger was illness (for which, one received a cure)

If the answer for nowadays is "no", then at the time the b'racha of "Rofe Cholim" was said, was there a differentiation made, and how was it decided which b'racha to recite.

warm regards,

Jeff Ram,

Jerusalem

The Kollel replies:

Dear JeffRe. your queries concerning Berachos before and after the taking of cures: firstly allow me to point out that what we say before the cure is as Tefilah, not a Berachah.The Shulchan Aruch in Siman 230 rules, that one says both the Tefilah before bloodletting, and the Berachah afterwards (and according to the Mishnah Berurah, this applies to all cures). The M.B. also points out that, although the Berachah after the cure should be in the form of a full Berachah (with Sheim and Malchus), this does not appear to be the Minhag.Possibly, the fact that many people do not say one or the other of these, is due to ignorance - in this matter. It is also possible that the Berachah afterwards is not so applicable today, as it should be said after an immediate cure - like bloodletting, where one goes in 'sick' so to speak, and comes out cured; but this is not common in our application of medicine today. Consequently, it is difficult to pinpoint the moment of recital. In any event, a Berachah without Sheim and Malchus (which is the way we would say it, as quoted above from the M.B.) is not as serious as a real Berachah. A combination of these ideas will perhaps explain why it is not said (on the other hand, saying it, even if the custom is not to, cannot do any harm either.)Interesting though, that we tend to say to a fellow Jew who is cured from an illness - 'Baruch Rofei Cholim' (which according to the Shulchan Aruch, is what a person who has just had his blood let, says himself - This has no bearing though, on the 'Baruch Rofei Cholim' after bloodletting, as we shall now see).Finally, the difference between the above Berachah and that of ha'Gomel, are two different issues: the former is said immediately after an immediate cure (in which case, 'ha'Gomel' is not recited), as we wrote earlier, whereas 'ha'Gomel' is recited only having been confined to bed for at least three days, in which case one would not say 'Baruch Rofei Cholim' about oneself.Hope things are a little clearer nowbe'virkas kol tuvYours sincerely Eliezer ChryslerYISRAEL'S ANSWER:

(1) Yes, the MISHNAH BERURAH (230:6-7), who says explicitly that one says the "Yehi Ratzon" prayer before taking any cure, seems to imply that there is no difference with the prayer said after the cure, "Baruch Rofeh Cholim" (which the SHULCHAN ARUCH there is also discussing).

(2) "Ha'Gomel" is recited when one is saved from a life-threatening situation. The Sages decreed that one is obligated to recite this blessing. On the other hand, the prayer "Baruch Rofeh Cholim" is not an obligation, but a "Tefilah b'Alma" (as the Sha'ar Ha'Tzion, 230:9, calls it). Its purpose is merely to encourage a person to give praise and thanks to G-d (and a person may choose to do so with other words if he so desires). Granted, if one was saved from a dangerous illness, he would actually say both the blessing of "Ha'Gomel" and the prayer of "Rofeh Cholim," but of course, "Ha'Gomel" would be said as an obligation, and "Rofeh Cholim" merely as one's additional expression of praise to Hash-m Who cures the ill.

(By the way, many people are Noheg to say the words "Baruch Rofeh Cholim" when they see someone else who was sick and became well. This practice is consistent with what we wrote above; since that prayer is only a "Tefilah b'Alma" to thank Hash-m, one may say it whenever he wants to thank Hash-m for curing someone. "Ha'Gomel," of course, may only be said by the person who has an obligation to say it.)

Y. Shaw