More Discussions for this daf
1. Studying Torah and Child Support 2. Mussar
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ERUVIN 22

sam socher asked:

it seems to me that Rav Ada bar Masnah is chosing to learn Torah rather than to live and implemnt it. Doesn't he have a chiuv to go out and support his family?. Is his attitude an Ideal, a goal, a good example?

sam socher, west hills, california, usa

The Kollel replies:

We know that R. Shimon bar Yochai lived in a cave for twelve years (plus one [Shabbos 33b]), and this is often quoted by the Ba'alei Musar as an ideal (and not just forced circumstances). We also have the story of R. Chanina ben Dosa and the golden leg (Ta'anis). And in a story similar to the one cited in our Gemara, when the G'ra's wife once complained to him that there was nothing in the house for the children to eat, he instructed her to send them outside to play with the neighbor's children, and when the neighbor called her children inside for lunch, she would surely invite their children, too.

I would place the above stories into the category of 'ideal' for that caliber of people, not an example for us to follow, because we are not on that level of Bitachon.

It is highly improbable that any Rav would advocate that we follow their example, as adopting levels that are beyond one's Madreigah can have devastating results. But for that level of people it is an ideal and a goal, as it displays a total Bitachon that Hash-m can and will look after those who do His bidding.

Perhaps I ought to add, that the doubts in our mind concerning the above stories are based, not on our sense of what is correct and just (as we may think it is), but on the fact that our Bitachon is way below that of the Tzadikim who are featured there.

Let me conclude with a thought that I just saw in the Seifer Otzar ha'Yedi'os, who cites both the Malbim and Rabeinu Bachye in the Parshah of the Manna (in Beshalach [16:33]). They explain how Hash-m commanded Moshe to put away a flask of Manna before Hash-m 'as a charge for all generations', to remind them at all times that the Parnasah of Talmidei-Chachamim lies in the hands of Hash-m (R. Bachye); or, in words of the Malbim - to teach us 'that whoever dedicates matters of this world towards Torah and Avodah, Hash-m will prepare for him his Parnasah without his having to toil for it. In fact, he joins the Ochlei ha'Man' (who always had what they needed, no more, no less).

be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler.

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The following is copied from Insights to the Daf Eruvin 22:1

1) FORSAKING ONE'S CHILDREN IN ORDER TO LEARN TORAH

QUESTION: Rava explains that we learn from the verse, "Shechoros ka'Orev" (Shir ha'Shirim 5:11) that Torah scholarship is to be found in one who is unkind towards his children (because he knows that Hash-m will look after them) like a raven (who forsakes its offspring, leaving them in the hands of Hash-m).

The Gemara says that this is like the practice of Rav Ada bar Masna. When Rav Ada bar Masna left his family to go learn in Yeshiva, his wife asked what their children would eat while he was away learning. He replied, "Are the vegetables (or reed-grasses) in the marshes all gone?"

It seems that Rava is praising a person who studies at the expense of providing support for his children. How can such a person be considered praiseworthy? The Gemara in Kesuvos (49b) clearly requires a father to support his young children!

ANSWER: The Gemara in Gitin (6b) condemns those who neglect the support of their family in order to go study Torah. (This is the understanding of Tosfos there (DH v'Yitnu) and in Kidushin (29b, DH Ha Lehu). According to Rashi in Kidushin, it seems that this was the subject of a dispute between the sages of Eretz Yisrael and the sages of Bavel. However, even according to Rashi, the sages of Bavel maintained that one may leave his home to go learn before he has children, and only with the permission of his new wife, but not after he has children to support.)

Rava does not praise a person who does not provide support at all for his family. Rather, Rava praises a person who does support his family by providing their essential needs even while he is away learning Torah. The Gemara refers to this basic amount of support when it says that Rav Ada bar Masna provided his family with the wild vegetables of the marshes.

Rava means that the study of Torah overrides the responsibility to provide more than the basic amount of support (as we find, for example, later in Eruvin (end of 55b; see Rashi there, DH Ein Talmid Chacham)). Rava says that a person who wants to become a Talmid Chacham should not leave his studies in order to provide a life of luxury for his family. (M. KORNFELD)