Today's daf discussed the gargantuan eating habits of Reb Yochonon. Seems like flat out loshon hora to me. There was a little benefit from the kasha, but that was quickly resolved. I think the world would have been better off without discussing Reb Yochanon's eating style, and therefore the Gemora seems to have been involved in pure loshon hora. What do you think?
Avrohom Meyer Kohn, Los Angeles, CA USA
Dear Avrohom Meyer,
The Gemara in Avoda Zara 10b relates that all Amoraim were able to revive the dead -Tchias HaMeisim. Now to reach that level one has to live according to the entire Mesilas Yesharim including N'kius, Prishus, Kedusha etc. (see Avoda Zara 20b)! When one reaches this level of holiness then even his mundane acts are sanctified.
Rav Yochanan was one of the greatest of the first generation Amoraim. Rav Yochanan's eating fruit was more holy than our Yom Kippur!
As I heard from Rav Chaim Kreiswirth Zatzal: If there is no respect for Torah and Torah scholars there is no learning Torah.
This Gemara is also mentioned in Berachos 44a which speaks of the superior quality of the fruit near the Kineret in Eretz Yisroel. Rav Yochanan it seems went (with his students!) to partake of these fruits to show the praise of Eretz Yisroel.
Also see Bach Orach Chaim 208 (starting V'nochal Mpirya) that with the eating of Eretz Yisroel fruit we are nourished by the holyness of the Shechina before the Churban.
All the best
Reuven Weiner
Furthermore, as related in Yoma 82b, Rabbeinu HaKadosh referred to R' Yochanan as being a Kadosh already in his embryonic stage, based on the incident that occurred during the time that R' Yochanan's mother was pregnant with him as related ibid.
be'Kavod u'Bracha,
Mordechai Schwimmer
With all respect, these comments do not address the issue of loshon hora, nor does they address why Reb Yochonon ate such an enormous amount.
Dear hp,
As I indicated before, Rav Yochanan was a holy man beyond our comprehension. (This in itself requires a lengthy essay.) Therefore, there must be a very good reason why he ate the fruit. (Even a tzadik can sin, but to attribute this eating to a gross act of indulging makes no sense, since it occurred more than once and in front of students.) When we understand the positiveness of his act it will be obvious that there is no Loshon Horah because there is nothing to be called derogatory, only praiseworthy.
As to his exact intentions we found no sources. However, we suggested:
1)He wished to show that these fruit from Eretz Yisroel were unusually special and did so by eating an enormous amount.
2)There exists special holiness in these fruit which becomes part of a person who eats them.
3)Rav Yochanan was a very handsome person and also was quite heavy (Bava Metzia 84a) which in those days was a sign of healthiness and prosperity. His beauty was a symbol of the respect that Goyim had for the Jews before the Chorban. Perhaps due to this, he chose to eat in this manner to further increase his size.
All the best,
Reuven Weiner
The possibility of Lashon Hara is intrinsically excluded from this incident.
The incident is related by Rabbah Bar Bar Chanah (RBB"Ch) a disciple of R. Yochanan who quotes his Rebbi R. Yochanan in scores of statement in the form of Amar RBB"Ch Amar R.Yochanan. Therefore there is no valid reason why RBB"Ch would infringe the Kavod of his Rebbi.
Furthermore, among the aforementioned statements of RBB"Ch in the name of R. Yochanan we find:
a) The severity of offending anybody's honor (let alone one's Rebbi), Noach Lo leAdam etc. (Bava Metzia 58b-59a).
b) The caliber of a Rav that one should learn Torah from, "Im Domeh ha'Rav leMalach" etc.(Chagigah 15b).
be'Kavod u'Bracha,
Mordechai Schwimmer