Version #1: If a Karfef more than Beis Sa'atayim was not Hukaf l'Dirah, and one wants to be Mema'et (diminish) it:

Planting trees in it is not Mema'et it. (It is normal to have trees in a Karfef);

A pillar 10 tall and four wide is Mema'et;

If it is less than three wide, it is not Mema'et.

(Rabah): A pillar between three and four wide is Mema'et;

(Rava): It is not Mema'et.

Rabah holds that it is Mema'et because [three Tefachim is an important amount,] it is not Lavud;

Rava holds that it is not Mema'et. Since it is less than four, it is unimportant.

If one made a Mechitzah [l'Shem Dirah] four Tefachim away from the wall of the Karfef, it helps. If it was less than three away, it does not help.

(Rabah): If it was between three and four, it helps;

(Rava): It does not help.

Rabah says that it helps, because it is further away than the Shi'ur of Lavud;

Rava says that it does not help. Since it is less than four away, the place is unimportant.

Version #2: Rav Simi taught a more lenient version [of the argument. Rabah and Rava agree that a pillar more than three wide is Mema'et. They argue about a pillar less than three.] (end of Version #2)

If one plastered the wall with mud and it could stay by itself [without the wall], it is Mema'et;

(Rabah): If it cannot stay by itself, it is Mema'et;

(Rava): It is not Mema'et.

Rabah holds that it is Mema'et because currently [with the wall] it stands;

Rava holds that it is not Mema'et. Since it could not stand by itself, we ignore it.

If there was a mound in a Karfef, and one built a wall [l'Shem Dirah] four Tefachim away from it, it helps;

(Rav Chisda or Rav Hamnuna): If it was within three, or on the edge of the mound, it does not help (it is a Mechitzah on top of a Mechitzah);

(The other of Rav Chisda or Rav Hamnuna): It helps.

Decision: Rav Chisda holds that it helps:

(Rav Chisda): A Mechitzah on top of a Mechitzah helps regarding Shabbos, but not to acquire [through Chazakah] the property of a convert [who died without heirs];

(Rav Sheshes): It does not help even for Shabbos.

Rav Chisda: Rav Sheshes agrees to me that a Mechitzah on top of a mound helps.

Question: What is the reason?

Answer: For one who lives on the mound, it is the only Mechitzah.

Question (Rabah bar bar Chanah): According to the opinion that disqualifies a Mechitzah on top of a Mechitzah, if the lower Mechitzah sunk into the ground and the upper Mechitzah is intact, what is the law?

Question: Regarding what does he ask?

If he asks about [acquiring] property of a convert, Yirmeyah Bira'ah already taught this!

(Yirmeyah Bira'ah): If a convert died without heirs, and Reuven seeded a turnip in the cracks of the property, and Shimon dug in it, Shimon acquires it.

Question: What is the reason?

Answer: When Reuven seeded it, he did not improve it; the improvement (the sprouting of the turnip) happens by itself. (Likewise, if he did not acquire when he built the wall, he will not acquire when it sinks by itself.)

Answer: He asks about Shabbos.

Answer: It is a Mechitzah that came about on Shabbos, which is valid.

(Beraisa): If a Mechitzah was made on Shabbos, whether it was made b'Shogeg or b'Mezid, it is considered a Mechitzah.

Question: Rav Nachman taught that it is a Mechitzah only regarding throwing (to make liable one who throws to there from Reshus ha'Rabim), but it does not permit carrying inside!

Answer: He forbids carrying only if it was made b'Mezid. (This is a fine. All the more so it does not apply here, for it happened by itself!)

Leah made a Mechitzah on top of a Mechitzah to acquire the property of a convert. Later, Shimon dug in it. Rav Nachman ruled that Shimon acquired it. Leah was screaming in front of him.

Rav Nachman: You did not acquire the way people [normally] acquire!

(Rabah): If a Karfef was three Beis Sa'im, and one Beis Se'ah of which was roofed, the roofed part is included when calculating the Karfef's area. (It is three Beis Sa'im. One may not carry inside if it was not Hukaf l'Dirah);

(R. Zeira): It is not included. (We apply Pi Tikra Yored v'Sosem, i.e. the edge of the roof extends down to the ground, so the Karfef is Beis Sa'atayim.)

Suggestion: Rabah and R. Zeira argue like Rav and Shmuel do:

(Rav): One may carry in an Achsadra in a valley. (Rashi - it has no walls. A roof rests on beams between four poles. Tosfos - it has two walls [adjacent to each other] or three walls);

(Shmuel): One may carry only within four Amos.

Rav permits the entire Achsadra. We apply Pi Tikra Yored v'Sosem;

Shmuel permits only within four Amos. We do not apply Pi Tikra Yored v'Sosem.

Rejection: If the roofed part of the Karfef was like an Achsadra, Rabah would agree [that Pi Tikra Yored v'Sosem, and it would not be included];

The case is, it has a slanted roof (Rashi - we cannot say Pi Tikra Yored v'Sosem, for there is no Peh (edge); Tosfos - the case is, it has no walls).

(R. Zeira): I agree that if a Karfef (Beis Sa'atayim) was totally breached to a Chatzer, it is forbidden.

Question: What is the reason?

Answer: The area of the Chatzer is included. (The Karfef is now more than Beis Sa'atayim.)

Objection (Rav Yosef): It is unreasonable that a place in which one may carry will make it too big [and forbid it]!

Question (Abaye): Do you ask according to R. Shimon [who permits transferring between a Chatzer and a Karfef]? Even R. Shimon would forbid this, for the area where the wall [that was breached] used to be is added to the Karfef! (It is now more than Beis Sa'atayim.)

(Rav Chisda): If a Karfef (Beis Sa'atayim) was totally breached to a Chatzer, the Chatzer is permitted, and the Karfef is forbidden.

Question: Why is the Chatzer permitted?

Answer: It has remnants. (The ends of the wall remain. We assume that the Chatzer was wider than the Karfef on both sides.)

Question: (Why does he say that the Chatzer is permitted and the Karfef is forbidden?) It can also be the opposite [if the Karfef is wider than the Chatzer on both sides]!

Answer: We must say that the extra area (where the wall was breached) forbids the Karfef, but it does not forbid the Chatzer (it has no size limit).

There was an orchard [more than Beis Sa'atayim] outside a wall of a house. (The wall was l'Shem Dirah, therefore it permitted the orchard. Tosfos ha'Rosh - when it was built, it was the fourth wall of the orchard.) The wall fell.

(Rav Bivi): We can rely on inner walls of the house [to still consider the orchard Hukaf l'Dirah].

Rejection (Rav Papa): The inner walls were made only for the inside of the house, but not for the orchard!

The Reish Galusa had an orchard. (It was more than Beis Sa'atayim, and not Hukaf l'Dirah.) Inside there was a shady tree surrounded by an Achsadra. He asked Rav Huna bar Chinena to arrange that they can bring bread there [on Shabbos].

Rav Huna made a path of [two rows of] sticks inserted in the ground, less than three Tefachim from each other.