GITIN 9 (5 Sivan) - Dedicated l'Zecher Nishmas Reb Chaim Aryeh ben Aharon Stern Z'L by Shmuel Gut of Brooklyn, N.Y.

1)

(a)We just established Rava (who holds [with regard to a Get Shichrur which includes a gift of Karka] 'Palginan Diburei') like Rebbi Shimon in the Beraisa. What did Rebbi Yosi say when he heard Rebbi Shimon's opinion?

(b)What did Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman say in connection with Rebbi Yosi's statement?

(c)What problem does this create for Rava?

1)

(a)We just established Rava (who holds [with regard to a Get Shichrur which includes a gift of Karka] 'Palginan Diburei') like Rebbi Shimon in the Beraisa. When Rebbi Yosi heard Rebbi Shimon's opinion - he was so impressed that he quoted the Pasuk in Mishlei "Sefasayim Yishak Meshiv Devarim Nechochim" (i.e. he deserves to be kissed).

(b)Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman said - that, in spite of Rebbi Yosi's statement, the Halachah is like Rebbi Meir (in the Mishnah in Pe'ah).

(c)In that case, we ask - how can Rava hold 'Palginan Diburei' (by a Shtar), based on Rebbi Shimon, when the Halachah is like Rebbi Meir, who seems to hold that 'Palginan Diburei' does not apply by a Shtar?

2)

(a)What did Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman rule with regard to a Sh'chiv-Mera (a dying man) who wrote all his property to his Eved and then recovers? What does this go to prove?

(b)Rav Ashi reconciles Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman's latter ruling with the previous one, where he ruled like Rebbi Meir, who ostensibly does not hold of 'Palginan Diburei' by Shtar, with the words 'de'Lav K'rus Gita Hu'. What is the meaning of 'K'rus Gita'?

(c)What does it mean in the context of the Mishnah in Pe'ah?

(d)How do we know that 'K'rus Gita' applies to a Get Shichrur as well as to a Get Ishah, in connection with which it is written?

2)

(a)Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman rules that a Sh'chiv-Mera (a dying man) who wrote all his property to his slave and then recovers - may retract from the property but not from the slave, proving that he does in fact hold of 'Palginan Diburei' with regard to a Shtar.

(b)Rav Ashi reconciles Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman's latter ruling with the previous case, where he ruled like Rebbi Meir, who ostensibly does not hold of 'Palginan Diburei' by Shtar, with the words 'de'Lav K'rus Gita Hu' - meaning that it does not sever all connections between the two parties concerned (and is therefore invalid, because the Torah refers to a Get as 'Sefer Kerisus').

(c)In the context of the Mishnah in Pe'ah, it means that the reason for Rebbi Meir's ruling is (not because he does not hold of 'Palginan Diburei' by Shtar, but) because, by virtue of his having written 'Chutz' on the one hand, and not having specifically included the slave in the sale on the other, the owner failed to sever connections with the slave completely. Otherwise, Rebbi Meir would agree that we say 'Palginan Diburei' by a Shtar too.

(d)We know that 'K'rus Gita' applies to a Get Shichrur as well a to a Get Ishah, in connection with which it is written - from the 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "O Chufshah Lo Nitan Lah" (in Kedoshim, in connection with a Shifchah Charufah) and "v'Kasav Lah" (in Ki Setzei, in connection with a Get Ishah.

3)

(a)Our Mishnah states 'Im Yesh Alav Orerin, Yiskayem b'Chosamav'. On what grounds do we reject the proposition that this refers to the protest ...

1. ... of one witness (who claims that the Get is Pasul)?

2. ... of two witnesses?

(b)Who then, is the protester referred to by the Tana?

(c)Why are we still not worried that the Get may not have been written Lishmah?

3)

(a)Our Mishnah states 'Im Yesh Alav Orerin, Yiskayem b'Chosamav'. We reject the proposition that this refers to the protest ...

1. ... of one witness (who claims that the Get is Pasul) - on account of Rebbi Yochanan's statement 'Divrei ha'Kol Ein Ir'ur Pachos mi'Shenayim".

2. ... of two witnesses - because why should we then believe the substantiating witnesses any more than the protesting ones, seeing as it is 'T'rei u'T'rei' (two against two).

(b)The protester referred to by the Tana is therefore - the husband himself, whom Chazal believe unless witnesses substantiate the signatures.

(c)We are not worried that the Get may not have been written Lishmah - because the Tana is speaking about Eretz Yisrael, where the Sofrim were experts in Lishmah.

4)

(a)What does the Tana of our Mishnah say about ...

1. ... someone who brings a Get from overseas but who is unable to say 'be'Fanai Nichtav ... '?

2. ... someone who brings a Get Shichrur from overseas?

(b)Since the former case is not speaking about a Cheresh (who is not eligible for Shelichus anyway), about whom is it speaking?

4)

(a)The Tana of our Mishnah says that ...

1. ... if someone brings a Get from overseas but is unable to say 'be'Fanai Nichtav ... ' - then, assuming witnesses signed on it, their signatures need to be substantiated.

2. ... someone who brings a Get Shichrur from overseas - is required to say 'be'Fanai Nichtav, just like someone who brings a Get Ishah.

(b)Since the former case is not speaking about a Cheresh (who is not eligible for Shelichus anyway) - it must be speaking about a Shali'ach who brought the Get and handed it to the woman, but who became a Cheresh before he had a chance to declare 'be'Fanai Nichtav ...'.

5)

(a)Gitei Nashim are compared to Shichrurei Avadim in three regards: 1. the need to say 'be'Fanai Nichtav' (as we learned in our Mishnah); 2. that if a Kuti signed on either of them as a witness, the Shtar is valid. What is the third comparison?

(b)In the third case that we just learned, what is the difference between a Get and other monetary documents? Why are the former Pasul and the latter, Kasher?

(c)According to Rebbi Meir, there is a fourth case where Gitei Nashim are compared to Shichrurei Avadim. What is it?

(d)What is Rebbi Meir's reason?

5)

(a)Gitei Nashim are compared to Shichrurei Avadim in three regards: 1. the need to say 'be'Fanai Nichtav' (as we learned in our Mishnah); 2. that if a Kuti signed on either of them as a witness, the Shtar is valid - and 3. if they were written in Nochri law-courts, they are Pasul.

(b)In the third case that we just learned, the difference between Gitin (which are Pasul) and other monetary documents (which are valid) is - that whereas Nochrim are not subject to Gitin and Kidushin, when it comes to money-matters, we apply the principle 'Dina d'Malchusa Dina' (their laws are binding on us too).

(c)According to Rebbi Meir, there is a fourth case where Gitei Nashim are compared to Shichrurei Avadim - namely, where someone gives either of them to a Shali'ach and wishes to retract before the Shali'ach hands the Get to the woman or to the slave, he may do so.

(d)Rebbi Meir's reason is - because both a Get and a Shtar Shichrur are detrimental to the respective recipients (the former, because she loses her marital rights, the latter, due to the advantage of living with a Shifchah Cana'anis), in which case a Sha'li'ach cannot acquire on their behalf without their consent.

9b----------------------------------------9b

6)

(a)The Rabanan do not list this latter case. Why not?

(b)What is the basis of the Machlokes between Rebbi Meir and the Rabanan? What do they

(c)According to the Rabanan, the Tana states that there are three cases, to preclude the case of Rebbi Meir; but why does he need to state that there are four according to Rebbi Meir?

6)

(a)The Rabanan do not list this latter case - because, in their opinion, once he has appointed a Shali'ach to hand his slave a Shtar Shichrur, he cannot retract.

(b)The basis of their Machlokes is - whether setting a slave free is considered a Chov (Rebbi Meir, as we explained) or a Zechus (the Rabanan, because freedom is an advantage).

(c)According to the Rabanan, the Tana states that there are three cases, to preclude the case of Rebbi Meir. And he needs to state that there are four cases, according to Rebbi Meir - to preclude the case of witnesses who do not know how to sign their names, which we about to discuss.

7)

(a)What happens when the witnesses do not know how to sign their names in the case of ...

1. ... a Get Ishah?

2. ... other Sh'taros?

(b)What does Raban Shimon ben Gamliel say about Shichrurei Avadim, whose witnesses do not know how to sign their names?

(c)Why did Chazal not compare Shichrurei Avadim to Gitei Nashim with the Gezeirah-Shavah of "Lah" "Lah", as we explained above?

(d)Raban Shimon ben Gamliel said in his statement regarding other Sh'taros 'Im Yod'in Likros v'Lachtom'. How do we amend his statement to accommodate the word 'Likros', which appears to be superfluous?

7)

(a)If the witnesses of ...

1. ... a Get Ishah do not know how to sign their names - we cut their names into the Shtar and they fill them in with ink.

2. ... other Sh'taros are unable to do so - then we simply find other witnesses.

(b)Raban Shimon ben Gamliel - compares Shichrurei Avadim to other Sh'taros in this regard, and he comes to explain the opinion of the Chachamim it seems, rather than to argue with them.

(c)Chazal did not compare Shichrurei Avadim to Gitei Nashim here too (based on the Gezeirah-Shavah of "Lah" "Lah") - because the only reason Chazal were lenient with regard to the latter was to avoid the woman from becoming an Agunah (should there be a problem in finding other witnesses), a reason that does not of course, apply to Avadim.

(d)Raban Shimon ben Gamliel said in his statement regarding other Sh'taros 'Im Yod'in Likros v'Lachtom'. To accommodate the word 'Likros', which appears to be superfluous, we amend his statement to read - 'Edim she'Ein Yod'in Li'kros, Korin Lifneihem v'Chosmin, v'she'Ein Yod'in Lachtom ... '.

8)

(a)If a Sh'chiv-Mera gives a Shtar to a Shali'ach and dies, should the Shali'ach hand it to the recipient in the case of ...

1. ... a Get Ishah?

2. ... a Shtar Shichrur? Why is that?

(b)And what will be the Din if he dies after giving a Shali'ach a Manah to hand over to a friend on his behalf?

(c)Then why did the Tana not include this case in his list of cases where Gitei Nashim are compared to Shichrurei Avadim?

(d)Why does Ravin Amar Rebbi Avahu quoting Rebbi Elazar in the name of Rebbi give 'T'nu Manah li'Peloni' the same Din as Gitei Nashim in this regard?

8)

(a)If a Sh'chiv-Mera gives a Shtar to a Shali'ach and dies - he may not hand it over to the recipient in the case of ...

1. ... a Get Ishah, or in the case of ...

2. ... a Shtar Shichrur, due to the principle 'Ein Get l'Achar Misah'.

(b)He may however - hand to the recipient a Manah that the Sh'chiv-Mera gave him before his death.

(c)And the reason that the Tana did not include this case in his list of cases where Gitei Nashim are compared to Shichrurei Avadim is - because the same Halachah applies to a case of 'T'nu Manah li'Peloni', and the Tana only includes cases which are unique to Gitei Nashim and Shichrurei Avadim.

(d)Ravin Amar Rebbi Avahu quoting Rebbi Elazar in the name of Rebbi gives 'T'nu Manah li'Peloni' the same Din as Gitei Nashim in this regard - because they were concerned that people will rely on the Shtar to acquire the money, and 'there is no Shtar after death'.

9)

(a)What will be the Din with regard to writing a Shtar she'Lo Lishmah regarding ...

1. ... a Get Ishah?

2. ... a Shtar Shichrur?

(b)We ask why the Tana did not insert this in his list comparing the two Dinim. Why is this a problem according to Rava, but not according to Rabah?

(c)We have learned that a Get that is written on something that is still attached to the ground is invalid. What will be the Din regarding a Shtar Shichrur that is attached?

(d)How do we then attempt to explain why the Tana ...

1. ... omits these two cases ('Lishmah' according to Rava, and 'Mechubar' according to everyone)?

2. ... then inserts that of Ercha'os shel Nochrim, which is a Psul d'Oraisa?

9)

(a)Both ...

1. ... a Get Ishah and ...

2. ... a Shtar Shichrur that is written she'Lo Lishmah are Pasul.

(b)We ask why the Tana did not insert this in his list - a problem according to Rava, in whose opinion the Tana mentions 'Molich u'Meivi' because of 'Shema Lo Yimtze'u Edim Lekaymo', but not according to Rabah, who gives the reason of 'Ein Beki'in Lishmah' (in which case he has already mentioned it).

(c)We have learned that a Get that is written on something that is still attached to the ground is invalid - and the same applies to a Shtar Shichrur.

(d)We attempt to explain why the Tana ...

1. ... omits these two cases ('Lishmah' according to Rava, and 'Mechubar' according to everyone) - by restricting the cases that he does include to cases that are Pasul mide'Rabanan, whereas these two are both Pesulim d'Oraisa.

2. ... then inserts that of Ercha'os shel Nochrim, which is a Psul d'Oraisa - by establishing it when there are Eidei Mesirah (according to Rebbi Elazar), reducing the Psul to a d'Rabanan.

10)

(a)Since the Tana speaks when there are Eidei Mesirah, on what grounds will the Get then be Pasul?

(b)Why must the Sofer then have been a Yisrael?

10)

(a)Despite the fact that the Tana speaks when there are Eidei Mesirah - the Get will be Pasul, because it is 'Mezuyaf mi'Tocho' (forged from within) as we explained above.

(b)The Sofer must then have been a Ysrael - because Rebbi Elazar establishes the Psul of she'Lo Lishmah by the writing of the Get (and a Nochri cannot write Lishmah).

11)

(a)In the Seifa of the Beraisa, Rebbi Shimon validates even Gitei Nashim that are signed by Nochrim. How does Rebbi Zeira explain this?

(b)Why does this not imply that the Tana Kama does not follow the opinion of Rebbi Elazar? How else might we interpret their Machlokes?

11)

(a)In the Seifa of the Beraisa, Rebbi Shimon validates even Gitei Nashim that are signed by Nochrim - which Rebbi Zeira establishes like Rebbi Elazar (who holds 'Eidei Mesirah Karsi', and who does not therefore require witnesses to sign on the Get).

(b)The Tana Kama may follow the opinion of Rebbi Elazar in principle - and they are arguing over a case where the names on the Get are typical Nochri names (such as John or Bill). Rebbi Shimon does not consider this Pasul mi'Tocho, since everyone knows that the witnesses are Nochrim, and will not come to rely on them should Eidei Mesirah not be available; whereas the Chachamim do not differentiate between one name and another.