Question: Can Parnasah (an orphaned daughter receives a 10th of the estate when she marries) be collected from Meshubadim?

Answer #1 (R. Ze'ira): R. Yochanan does not collect [it from Meshubadim].

Answer #2: Who collects [it from Meshubadim]? R. Chaninah and R. Ila'i do.

An estate of orphans was deposited with R. Yosa. There were [girls] who needed Parnasah. The case came in front of R. Elazar and in front of R. Shimon ben Yakim;

R. Shimon ben Yakim: Is it not better that they be financed from their father, than to be financed from Tzedakah?!

R. Lazar (to R. Shimon ben Yakim): Rebbi - if this would come in front of our Rebbeyim, they would not touch it (they were unsure whether or not Parnasah is collected from Metaltelim). Will we do an action?!

R. Yosa: I will give to them - if the [male] orphans will protest, I will give to them [from my money, the amount that I gave to the daughters].

Even so, they saw and did not protest.

A ruling went out about Tzipor bas Avshalom. R. Simon and R. Yakov bar Idi citing R. Shimon bar Ba said 'I and Rabanan collected for her from Metaltelim, like the custom of her place.'

Rav wrote to Rebbi 'I do not understand the intent of R. Chiyah Ruba. R. Chiyah Ruba had written between the lines [of Rebbi's ruling,] 'if [the male] orphans sold [the property] to others, we collect [for the daughters, from the buyers] for Parnasah, but not for food' [and in between, R. Chiyah wrote] 'if they were Meshabed the property';

Question (Rav): I do not know what is this Shibud [that he discusses]!

Answer (Levi - Beraisa): Whether the father was Meshabed, or the son was Meshabed, we collect for Parnasah, but we do not collect for food. (We explained this like HAGAHOS R. DINAR.)

(R. Aba): [The correct text of Levi's Beraisa] does not discuss Shibud of the father, rather, [only] Shibud of the son.

If the father was Meshabed - if in his lifetime we do not collect [for Parnasah, other than what he specifies], and all the more so after the father died!

(R. Chama bar Ukvah citing R. Yosi bar Chaninah): [If a man died and left a widow and daughters,] if the daughters married [and brought Parnasah to their husbands], the widow is fed from them.

This is like R. Yosi [bar Chaninah]'s opinion, for R. Yehudah, the nephew of R. Yosi bar Chaninah said in the name of R. Yosi bar Chaninah, even if the daughters died, the widow is fed from them (Parnasah that they brought to their husbands).

Question: (It was enacted that a man must feed his young children.) What is the law of grandchildren (must one feed young grandchildren)?

Answer #1 (R. Mana): Grandchildren are like children.

Answer #2 (R. Mana): Grandchildren are not like children.

R. Shmuel brei d'R. Yosi bei R. Bun and R. Masniyah were sitting. They wanted to say that just like [they argue about] grandchildren here, they argue about grandchildren there (whether or not we take from them to feed the widow and daughters).

Rejection (R. Yosi bei R. Bun): Grandchildren, Torah inheritance came upon them. (They are in place of their fathers; all agree that obligations on their fathers are on them. HAGAHOS R. DINAR - however, Chachamim decreed that one must feed his children. Perhaps they did not enact for grandchildren!)

(Mishnah): If one said 'you have a Maneh (100 Dinarim) of my father', and he answered 'I have only 50 Dinarim of him', he is exempt (from Shevu'as Modeh b'Miktzas), for he is like one who returns an Aveidah (he could have denied everything, for the son does not really know).

(R. Elazar): They made an enactment just like they enacted for a Metzi'ah;

(Mishnah): One who finds a Metzi'ah does not swear, due to Tikun ha'Olam.

(R. Aba): Our Mishnah discusses when he said to him 'you found two oxen of mine' [and the finder says that he found only one], but if he said to him 'I found two oxen for you, and I returned both of them to you', and he said 'you returned to me only one', they did not enact in this case.

(R. Pedas citing R. Yochanan): They enacted in this case, but in the first case (when they argue about what he found), mid'Oraisa [he is exempt].

Support (Beraisa) Suggestion: If he said 'you found two oxen of mine', and he says 'I found only one', perhaps he is liable!

Rejection: It says "Oh Matza Aveidah v'Chichesh Bah" - this excludes this one, who did not deny [a Vadai claim].

However, if he said 'I was standing on top of my roof, and I saw you pull two tied oxen. You pulled two tied oxen for me', and he says 'I pulled only one' they did not enact in this case (he must swear, for it is a Vadai claim).

And similarly, [if one said] 'I was standing by my father at the time he died, and he claimed a Maneh from you and you admitted to him', and he says 'I admitted to him only 50', they not enact in this case (he must swear, for it is a Vadai claim).