12TH CYCLE DEDICATIONS:
 
PESACHIM 12-15 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the sixth Yahrzeit of her father, Reb Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Rebbi Morton Weiner) Z'L, who passed away 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Dafyomi study, which was so important to him, during the weeks of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.

1)

FROM WHERE DOES R. MEIR LEARN? (cont.)

(a)

Rejection (and Answer #3 - Reish Lakish): No, the Mishnah discusses an Av and a Vlad mid'Oraisa;

1.

R. Meir learns from the words of R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua.

(b)

Question: From which words of R. Yehoshua does he learn (see (f) below)?

(c)

Answer #1 (Mishnah - R. Eliezer): If a barrel of Terumah is Safek Tamei:

1.

If it was in an open place (it is prone to become Vadai Tamei), we put it in a hidden place; if it was exposed, we cover it [to guard it from Tum'ah];

2.

R. Yehoshua says, if it was in a hidden place, we put it in an open place; if it was covered, we expose it. (Rashi - one may do so; R. Chananel - one should help it to become Vadai Tamei, for then a Kohen may use it, e.g. he may burn oil or spray wine on the floor to give a nice aroma.)

(d)

Rejection: R. Yehoshua permits only Gerama (causation) - he does not permit to overtly Metamei!

(e)

Answer #2 (Mishnah): If a barrel of Terumah wine broke in the upper winepress and it is about to fall into Tamei Chulin below, R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua agree that if one can save a Revi'is in Taharah, he must do so;

1.

If he cannot - R. Eliezer says, he must allow the Terumah to fall [even though it will mix with the Chulin, become Tamei and forbid it all even to a Kohen]; he may not actively Metamei it (e.g. catch it in a Tamei vessel);

2.

R. Yehoshua says, [in order to save the Chulin] he may actively Metamei the Terumah.

(f)

Question: If so, R. Meir learns only from R. Yehoshua - he should have said 'We learn from his words' (instead of 'from their words)!

(g)

Answer: He means, we learn from their argument (the rule is that the Halachah does not follow R. Eliezer).

(h)

Support (Mishnah - R. Yosi): R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua agree [that each is burned by itself... - this shows that R. Meir learned from them.]

(i)

Rav Nachman also answered like Reish Lakish.

(j)

Question (Rava - Beraisa - R. Yosi): What you seek to learn is unlike your source!

1.

Our teachers testified about burning meat [or oil] that was Nitma [or Nifsal] through a Vlad ha'Tum'ah [or a Tevul Yom] with meat [or oil] that was Nitma through an Av ha'Tum'ah - I agree that we may burn Terumah that was Nitma through a Vlad ha'Tum'ah with Terumah that was Nitma through an Av!

2.

But how can we burn even Taluy Terumah with Tamei - perhaps Eliyahu will come and tell us that it was Tahor!

15b----------------------------------------15b

3.

Beis Shamai say, [Kodshim that are] Pigul (an Avodah was done with intent to eat the meat or throw the blood after the allowed time), Nosar and Tamei may not be burned together;

4.

Beis Hillel permit burning them together.

5.

Summation of question: If R. Meir learns from R. Yehoshua, why does R. Yosi challenge him from R. Chanina?!

(k)

Answer (Rav Nachman): R. Yosi originally thought that R. Meir learns from R. Chanina [and challenged him] - when R. Meir answered that he learns from R. Yehoshua [regarding wine falling into the winepress], R. Yosi challenged also this, for R. Yehoshua and R. Eliezer agree that each is burned by itself.

(l)

Question: Why can't we learn from R. Yehoshua - it is just like burning Tahor and Tamei together!

(m)

Answer: It is different - R. Yehoshua permits to avoid a loss of Chulin.

(n)

Question (R. Yirmeyah): Also in our Mishnah, R. Yehoshua requires burning separately even though this entails a loss, i.e. extra wood is required!

(o)

Answer (an elder): Chachamim were concerned for a large loss, but not for a small loss.

2)

WHEN R. YOSI AGREES

(a)

(Rav Asi citing R. Yochanan): They (R. Meir and R. Yosi) argue about during the sixth hour [on Erev Pesach], but all permit burning together from the start of the seventh hour [when Chametz is forbidden mid'Oraisa].

(b)

Question (R. Zeira): Does R. Yochanan hold that the Mishnah discusses an Av ha'Tum'ah mid'Oraisa and a Vlad mid'Rabanan, and that R. Meir learns from R. Chanina?

(c)

Rav Asi: Yes!

(d)

(R. Yochanan): The Mishnah discusses an Av mid'Oraisa and a Vlad mid'Rabanan; R. Meir learns from R. Chanina;

1.

They argue about during the sixth hour, but all permit burning together from the start of the seventh.

(e)

Support (Beraisa - Beis Shamai): Pigul, Nosar and Tamei may not be burned together;

1.

Beis Hillel permit burning them together [because all are forbidden mid'Oraisa].

(f)

Rejection: There is different, for all of them are Tamei mid'Rabanan (but Chametz is not Tamei even when it is forbidden):

1.

(Mishnah): Pigul, Nosar and Tamei are Metamei the hands.

(g)

Support (Beraisa): If bread became moldy and is not fit for people to eat but dogs can eat it, it has Tum'as Ochlim if it is k'Beitzah (the size of an egg; Rishonim argue about whether this Shi'ur is needed for solid food to Metamei or to Mekabel Hechsher or to Mekabel Tum'ah), and [even if it is Terumah] it may be burned with Tamei [Chametz] on [Erev] Pesach.

(h)

Rejection: There is different - [since it is not fit for people to eat], it is like dirt (it lost Kedushas Terumah).

(i)

Question: If R. Meir learns from R. Chanina, why does it say 'R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua agree...'?

(j)

Answer: R. Yosi says, even R. Yehoshua is lenient only about Tahor and Taluy - he does not allow Tahor and Tamei together.

(k)

Question: If R. Meir learns from R. Chanina, why does R. Yosi say 'We may not learn this' - we should be able to learn [regarding the sixth hour, when also Chametz is forbidden mid'Rabanan - since R. Yosi agrees about the seventh hour, this shows that he does not distinguish Tum'ah from Isur]!

(l)

Answer (R. Yirmeyah): The case is, the meat was Nitma through a liquid that was Nitma by a (Rashi - Keli that touched a) Sheretz:

1.

R. Meir holds like he taught elsewhere, that liquids Metamei other things only mid'Rabanan [therefore, Chametz is just like R. Chanina's case];

2.

R. Yosi holds like he taught elsewhere, that liquids Metamei other things mid'Oraisa [therefore, Chametz is unlike R. Chanina's case].

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