Question (Rav Papa): This is not comforting - Rabah and Rav Sheshes found a flaw with it!

This Beraisa is like Rebbi, who holds that one is Chayav Misah for Me'ilah:

(Beraisa - Rebbi): If one was Mo'el b'Mezid, he is Chayav Misah;

Chachamim say, he transgresses [only] a Lav.

Question: What is Rebbi's reason?

Answer (R. Avahu): He learns from a Gezerah Shavah "Chet-Chet" from a Tamei person who ate Terumah, who is Chayav Misah.

Summation of question: Similarly, the Gezeirah Shavah also teaches that just like one is Chayav Misah for a k'Zayis of Terumah, one is Chayav Misah for Me'ilah of a k'Zayis [unlike R. Chiya bar Avin, who is Mechayev Misah for Me'ilah of less than a k'Zayis! Also Chachamim learn [other things] from this Gezeirah Shavah - however, they expound "U'Mesu Bo" to teach that there is Misah for Terumah, but not for Me'ilah.]

Answer (and objection to Rabah and Rav Sheshes - Rav Papa): [R. Chiya's answer is good! Why do] Rabah and Rav Sheshes assume that Rebbi holds like Chachamim - perhaps he holds like Aba Sha'ul [who obligates for less than a k'Zayis of Terumah]!

Question: But Rav Papa said that Aba Sha'ul requires a Perutah and a k'Zayis!

Answer: This shows that he retracted.

Answer #2 (to Question 2:r:5, 32B - Mar brei d'Ravina): The Tana says that you cannot learn about Me'ilah from other Aveiros (Chayavei Kerisos), regarding which we do not equate lack of intent with intent:

If one intended to cut something detached and cut something attached [on Shabbos], he is exempt.

Regarding Me'ilah, lack of intent is like intent - if one intended to warm himself in Chulin shearings and warmed himself in shearings of an Olah, he was Mo'el!

Answer #3 (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): You cannot learn about Me'ilah from other Aveiros, regarding which Mis'asek (one who intended for a permitted action, and transgressed) is not like intent [for a forbidden action], to Me'ilah, regarding which Mis'asek is like intent:

If one intended to lift something detached and cut something attached [on Shabbos], he is exempt.

If one stuck his hand into a Keli to take something and anointed his hand in Kodesh oil, he was Mo'el!

(Beraisa): This applies to one who separated Terumah and then it became Chametz - but all agree that on Pesach, if one separated Chametz to be Terumah, it does not take effect.

Question: What is the source of this?

Answer (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): "Titen Lo" (to the Kohen) - do not give [Terumah which he cannot eat, e.g. Tamei Terumah, which will be fuel] for his fire (all the more so, do not give something he cannot use at all)!

Question (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua - Beraisa): One may not separate Tamei produce to be Terumah on (to exempt) Tahor produce;

If this was done b'Shogeg, it becomes Terumah.

We should say "Titen Lo" - not for his fire!

Answer: Tamei Terumah was once fit [before it was Tamei] - the Chametz was never fit.

Question: In what case was Chametz never fit to be Terumah?

Answer: It became Chametz while it was attached. (Kovetz Shi'urim - when grain is ready to be harvested it can become Chametz, but it cannot become Terumah until it is detached.)

Question: If it did not become Chametz until it was detached, will you say that it becomes Terumah?!

Answer #1 (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): Yes! Chachamim of the Beis Medrash also say so!

Answer #2 (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): Even if it did not become Chametz until it was detached, it does not become Terumah;

Terumah must be "Reishis" (first) such that the remainder is discernibly for Yisrael - here, this is not true (it is all forbidden).

(Rav Acha bar Rav Avya citing R. Yochanan): If grapes became Tamei, one may stomp less than k'Beitzah [at a time - this is the Shi'ur for Tum'as Ochlim], the wine may be used for Nesachim (wine offerings, for it is Tahor).

Inference: He holds that juice inside a fruit is 'deposited' (it is not considered part of the fruit);

The juice is not Mekabel Tum'ah until it leaves (only then it is considered a liquid) - at that time, there is not a Shi'ur (of grapes - a k'Beitzah of solid food is needed to Metamei something else)!

Question: If so, it should be Tahor even if he stomps exactly k'Beitzah!

(Mishnah): If a Tamei Mes squeezed exactly k'Beitzah of olives or grapes, they are Tehorim.

Answer: That is b'Di'eved - l'Chatchilah, one may not do so, lest he stomp more than k'Beitzah.

Objection (Rav Chisda): We cannot accept your Halachah - where did the Tum'ah go?!

Inference: He holds that juice is considered part of the fruit, it became Tamei along with the fruit.

Question (Rav Acha): You must agree that the juice is deposited!

(Mishnah): If a Tamei Mes squeezed exactly k'Beitzah of olives or grapes, they are Tehorim.

We understand this if juice is deposited - but if it is part of the fruit, it became Tamei along with the fruit once he touched the fruit!

Answer: No - the case is, the fruits were not Huchshar to Mekabel Tum'ah.

They are not Huchshar until he squeezes them (the juice that leaves is Machshir the fruit) - at that time, less than a Shi'ur remains (k'Beitzah is also the Shi'ur for a solid to Mekabel Hechsher or Tum'ah - see Tosfos).

Support (Beraisa): ...This is like Tamei Terumah of strawberries and grapes, which may not be eaten and do not burn.

If the juice inside is not Nitma, one may squeeze out the juice [less than k'Beitzah at a time] and drink it!

Rejection (Rava): No - Chachamim forbid on account of Takalah [lest one eat the fruits while squeezing them, which is commonly done - Maharam Chalavah. Rav Acha and the Mishnah permit regarding Chulin.]

Question (Abaye): We are not concerned for Takalah!

(Beraisa): One may use Tamei Terumah bread or oil for fuel [even though one does not use much at a time]!

Answer (Rava): The case is, he puts the bread amidst wood and puts the oil in a disgusting Keli [no one will eat it].

(Beraisa): One may use Tamei Terumah bread or oil for fuel [even though it will be used over the course of a long time]!

(Abaye and Rava): This is permitted with bread, but not with wheat, on account of Takalah (wheat does not become repulsive even if it is amidst wood).

(R. Yochanan): It is permitted even with wheat.

Question: We should be concerned for Takalah!

Answer: He does like Rav Ashi answered [elsewhere] - he makes it repulsive by cooking it [before throwing it amidst wood].