(Beraisa): If a Ner is on a board, one removes the board and the Ner falls.

Objection (R. Yochanan): He is very prone to be Chayav Chatas - [if removing the board tilts the lamp] forward, [he will be liable for] burning. [If he tilts the lamp] back, [he will be liable for] extinguishing! (I.e. the wick is in front, at the opening of the lamp.)

Answer (Shmuel bar Aba, to R. Yosa): [The Beraisa] discusses an extinguished lamp.

R. Yosa: You should have serenity [as reward for assuaging my mind]!

Question: Like whom is this [Beraisa]? If it is like R. Meir, even the board should be forbidden [to move, for it is a Bosis for Isur]. If it is like R. Shimon, even the lamp should be permitted!

Answer #1: It is like R. Yehudah. It is R. Yehudah said that a Ner is repulsive, but a board is not repulsive.

Objection: How can you say that it is like R. Yehudah? [The Seifa] teaches that if a Ner was in back of a door, one may open and close it on Shabbos, as long as he does not intend to extinguish it or make it flare up. (R. Yehudah forbids Davar she'Eino Miskaven!)

Answer #2: Rav and Shmuel establish it to discuss one who forgot [and left it there], and they curse one who does so (opens and closes the door, for it is almost certain to cause burning or extinguishing) "Yachres Hash-m la'Ish Asher Ya'asenah Er v'Oneh.''

(Beraisa): If he stipulated [to move a Ner, even if it burned on Shabbos], it is permitted.

Question: Like whom is this? If it is like R. Meir, even if he stipulated about it, it is forbidden. If it is like R. Shimon, even if he did not stipulate about it, it should be permitted!

Answer #1: It is like R. Yehudah.

Objection: R. Yehudah said that a [used] Ner is repulsive (a stipulation does not help)!

Answer #2: Who taught that if he stipulated, it is permitted? It is R. Shimon. (We explained this like R. MEIR SIMCHAH);

(Beraisa): However, if a cup, bowl or lantern, even though they extinguished, one may not touch them.

(R. Tavi citing Rav Chisda): It is even like R. Shimon. He said there [that excess oil in a lamp that extinguished] is permitted; here he agrees that it is forbidden, for if you tell someone that it is permitted, he will extinguish it and use [the remaining oil, for these hold much oil.]

Note: Perhaps this is because R. Shimon holds that extinguishing is liable only to make a singed wick. Yisraelim are not suspected to intentionally do Melachah!

(R. Mana): Initially, we used to think that [the Tana'im] argue in a case that [a lamp] extinguished, and mice dragged the wick [outside the lamp], or [the wick] is Afutzah (plugs up the opening of the lamp. If not, the lamp is a Bosis for Muktzah, i.e. the wick);

And you can even say that mice did not drag the wick, and it is not Afutzah. The case is, there is oil in the lamp. (It is a Bosis also for Heter.)

A Mishnah teaches that one may take (carry) his son who has a rock in his hand, or a basket with a rock in it, and Tana d'Veis Rebbi taught that there is a rock and food in [the basket].

Retraction (R. Mana): What we said initially was totally wrong, for R. Rumnus took out the incense pan full of coals on Shabbos. Can you say that coals that they were Afutzos, or that there was oil [in the pan?! Rather, Rebbi holds like R. Shimon, and he permits without any Heter.]

Defense (of the initial reasoning - R. Avahu): There were sticks of incense inside [that had not burned. It was permitted only due to them.]