Question: (Our Mishnah said that you cannot say that the mother or grandmother of his wife did Mi'un. This implies that the others could do Mi'un.) Can Bito do Mi'un?! [Mi'un was enacted for a marriage mid'Rabanan, i.e. for an orphaned Ketanah. If her father is alive,] her marriage is mid'Oraisa - "Es Biti Nasati l'Ish ha'Zeh"!

Answer (Rav Huna citing Reish Lakish): The case is, a father married off his Ketanah and she was divorced. She is like an orphan in her father's lifetime (mid'Oraisa, her father cannot marry her off, so marriage mi'Rabanan was enacted for her).

Inference (R. Acha citing R. Chanina citing Reish Lakish): A Ketanah cannot give birth. If you would not say so, [a mother-in-law] could wait until she matures, do Mi'un to her husband, and permit her Tzarah to her son-in-law! (PNEI MOSHE - he said 'wait until she matures' because he holds like Shmuel (Bavli 107b), that one who does Mi'un must affirm her Mi'un when she matures.)

R. Yishmael's daughter-in-law did Mi'un when her son was on her shoulder.

(R. Chizkiyah citing R. Avahu): R. Yehudah, R. Shimon and R. Yishmael said the same matter;

(Beraisa): Until when may a girl do Mi'un?

Answer #1 (R. Meir): It is until she brings two hairs [after 12 years].

Answer #2 (R. Yehudah): It is until there is much black (hair. Even though she can give birth from when she brings two hairs, she is not an adult until there is much black.)

Answer #3 (R. Shimon): It is until the Kaf (a protrusion above the Ervah) flattens (goes away).

(R. Ze'orah citing R. Chiyah citing Reish Lakish): It is until the Kaf flattens and there is more black than white.

(R. Avahu citing R. Lazar citing R. Hoshayah): The Halachah follows R. Yudan.

(R. Yehoshua ben Levi): The Halachah follows R. Yehudah.

A case came in front of R. Yosa. He said, go to R. Avahu. He has a tradition that the Halachah follows R. Yehudah. We do not have a tradition that the Halachah follows R. Yehudah.

(R. Chanina): The Halachah follows R. Yehudah.

R. Yochanan (to people of Tzipori): You say in the name of R. Chanina that the Halachah follows R. Yehudah. It is not!

Question: What was the conclusion?

Answer (Talmidim citing R. Chanina): R. Yehudah agrees that if she had Bi'ah after bringing two hairs, she cannot do Mi'un;

(R. Ze'orah citing R. Chanina): R. Yehudah agrees that if she became Mekudeshes after bringing two hairs, she cannot do Mi'un.

According to R. Ze'orah, who says that if she became Mekudeshes after bringing two hairs, this implies that if she became Mekudeshes before bringing two hairs, and she had Bi'ah after bringing two hairs, she can do Mi'un, this is fine (that R. Yishmael's daughter-in-law did Mi'un after she gave birth. He holds that the Bi'ah does not make Kidushin, for he relies on his initial Kidushin, and does not intend to be Mekadesh through Bi'ah - PNEI MOSHE.)

Question: According to Talmidim, who say that if she had Bi'ah after bringing two hairs [she cannot do Mi'un], this implies that if she had Bi'ah before bringing two hairs, she can do Mi'un - when did [R. Yishmael's daughter-in-law] become pregnant and give birth?

Answer: It was before bringing two hairs.

Question: Can she live [in such a case]? Didn't R. Redifah citing R. Yonah citing R. Ila say that if a woman became pregnant and gave birth before bringing two hairs, she and her child will die. If [both were] after bringing two hairs, she and her child can live;

If she became pregnant before bringing two hairs, and gave birth after bringing two hairs, she can live but her child will die!

Question: What was the conclusion?

Answer: R. Yishmael holds like R. Yehudah, [who permits Mi'un] until there is much black], and like R. Shimon, who says that he has Bi'ah relying on his initial Kidushin [and does not intend to be Mekadesh through Bi'ah].

According to R. Meir and R. Yehudah who say that it depends on Simanim, this is fine (she cannot do Mi'un once she is an adult).

Question: According to R. Shimon, who says that [she is not Mekudeshes] until he adds another Kinyan [for the sake of Kidushin], even an adult [should be able to do Mi'un]!

Answer (R. Yitzchak): Indeed, [according to letter of the law, even an adult can do Mi'un. Rather, R. Shimon forbids] lest Bnos Yisrael wantonly have relations [and later nullify the Kidushin retroactively].

A case came in front of R. Yosi. He said to check [the upper Simanim, i.e. signs of Bagrus based on] her breasts. (She had already brought two hairs.)

Question: Is this like R. Yehudah, who says [that she may do Mi'un] 'until there is much black' [i.e. until Bagrus?

[This cannot be, for] R. Avahu cited R. Yochanan to say that we do not [rely on the upper Simanim to] do an action [to be lenient]!

Answer: [R. Avahu said so] only within the time (within six months after bringing two hairs), but after the time, we do an action (for she is a Vadai Bogeres)!

This is like R. Yehoshua ben Levi said, that there are only six months between Na'arus and Bagrus.

However, here, if it is a Safek whether there is much black, or there is not much black [and she did Mi'un and accepted Kidushin from someone else, perhaps the latter Kidushin took effect, so] I force [the first] to give to a Get (divorce her. If we know that) there was much black [her Mi'un was Vadai invalid] there is no [need for] a Get. (We explained this like SHA'AREI TORAS ERETZ YISRAEL.)