(a)What objection did Rav Chanan bar Ketina raise, when Rav Nachman validated Shiyer be'Chiti up to the Shipuy Kova?
(b)Rav Nachman replied that he knew nothing about Chilak or Bilak. What do we initially interpret this to mean?
(c)Based on a Sugya in Cheilek, however, we reject that explanation. What do the terms clearly mean there?
(d)So what did Rav Nachman really mean?
(e)Rav Nachman bases his ruling on a statement in the name of Rebbi Yochanan. What did he say?
1)
(a)When Rav Nachman validated Shiyer be'Chiti up to the Shipuy Kova, Rav Chanan bar Ketina objected - on the grounds that this concurred neither with the opinion of the Chachamim, nor with that of Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah.
(b)Rav Nachman replied that he knew nothing about Chilak or Bilak, which we initially interpret to mean - dividing the Si'man into two (like the Rabbanan), and tearing it into pieces (like Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah), respectively.
(c)Based on a Sugya in Cheilek, however - where they are clearly names of people, we reject that explanation.
(d)In fact, Rav Nachman was simply using a meaningless expression.
(e)Rav Nachman bases his ruling on a statement in the name of Rebbi Yochanan, who said - mi'Shipuy Kova u'Lematah, Kesheirah.
2)
(a)What did Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi say about the Mugremes of ...
1. ... the Rabbanan?
2. ... Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah?
(b)Why is Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi's second statement not obvious?
(c)Indeed, how do we know that Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos is not referring to the statement of the Rabbanan (u'Mugremes Pesulah) that precedes it?
(d)On what grounds do we rule like Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos?
2)
(a)Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi states that the Mugremes of ...
1. ... the Rabbanan - is Kasher according to Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah.
2. ... Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah - is Kasher according to Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos.
(b)Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi's second statement is not obvious - because, when in the Beraisa, we learned He'id Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos al Mugremes she'Hi Kesheirah we might have thought that he was referring to the Mugremes of the Rabbanan (where one completes the Shechitah outside the Taba'as ha'Gedolah), but not to that of Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah (where one Shechts most of it, or even all of it, beyond the Taba'as ha'Gedolah).
(c)We know that Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos is indeed not referring to the statement of the Rabbanan (u'Mugremes Pesulah) that precedes it - because if he had been, the Tana would have said simply He'id ... *Alehah* she'Hi Kesheirah.
(d)We rule like Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos - because Rav Nachman holds like him.
3)
(a)Rav Huna Amar Rav Asi confines the Machlokes between Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah and the Rabbanan to where the Shochet Shechted two thirds inside the Taba'as ha'Gedolah, and one third outside. What is then the basis of their Machlokes?
(b)In which case will Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah concede that the Shechitah is Pasul?
(c)Rav Chisda asked Rav Huna why he did not learn the other way round. What did he mean by that? In which case would they then be arguing?
(d)What will the Rabbanan hold in the previous case (where he first Shechted two thirds inside the Taba'as, and one third, outside)?
3)
(a)Rav Huna Amar Rav Asi confines the Machlokes between Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah and the Rabbanan to where the Shochet Shechted two thirds inside the Taba'as ha'Gedolah, and one third outside, and they are arguing over - whether the entire Shechitah needs to take place inside the Taba'os (the Rabbanan), or only up to the point where the animal dies (a fraction beyond halfway [Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah]).
(b)And Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah will concede that the Shechitah is Pasul - in the reverse case (where the Shochet Shechted the first third beyond the Taba'as ha'Gedolah, and two thirds inside [since then, the majority of the Shechitah up to the time that the animal dies, does not take place inside the Taba'os]).
(c)Rav Chisda asked Rav Huna why he did not learn the other way round - meaning that, in the previous case (where the Shochet Shechted the first third beyond the Taba'as ha'Gedolah, and two thirds inside) - Rebbi Yossi be'Rebbi Yehudah will declare the Shechitah Kasher, and the Rabbanan, Pasul.
(d)The Rabbanan will concede however, in the previous case (where the Shochet first Shechted two thirds inside the Taba'as, and one third, outside) - that the Shechitah is Kasher.
4)
(a)In the current version of the Machlokes, Rebbi Yossi be'Rebbi Yehudah learns his ruling from Chatzi Kanah Pagum. What does he prove from there?
(b)In that case, why will Shechting the difference between a third and the majority not suffice (like in the case of Chatzi Kanah Pagum, where the broken half-Si'man combines with the Mashehu Shechitah)?
(c)And how do the Rabbanan counter Rebbi Yossi be'Rebbi Yehudah's proof from Chatzi Kanah Pagum?
4)
(a)In the current version of the Machlokes, Rebbi Yossi be'Rebbi Yehudah learns his ruling from Chatzi Kanah Pagum - where the majority of the Kanah is not Shechted, yet the Shechitah is Kasher (because the animal's life left it at the time that the animal was being Shechted), and the same will apply here.
(b)Nevertheless, Shechting the difference between a third and the majority will not suffice (like in the case of Chatzi Kanah Pagum, where the broken half-Si'man combines with the Mashehu Shechitah) - because the Shechitah that takes place outside the location of the Makom Shechitah cannot combine with the remainder of the Shechitah, to render it Kasher.
(c)The Rabbanan however maintain that - Chatzi Kanah Pagum is different, inasmuch as the P'gam is in the location of the Shechitah (in which case the entire life of the animal is taken from it in the location of Shechitah), whereas Hagramah takes place outside the location of the Shechitah (in which case the majority of the animal's life is taken from it outside the location of the Shechitah).
5)
(a)What does Rav Chisda prove from the Mishnah in Perek ha'Shochet Rubo shel Echad Kamohu?
(b)How does Rav Yosef ...
1. ... refute this proof?
2. ... answer Abaye, who asks whether the author of every Rov in Shas is Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah?
(c)How will Rav Yosef explain the Rabbanan in our Mishnah, who say M'lo ha'Chut al P'nei Kulah?
5)
(a)Rav Chisda proves from the Mishnah in Perek ha'Shochet, Rubo shel Echad Kamohu that - even the Rabbanan agree that the Shechitah is Kasher, as long as the Shochet first Shechted the majority of the Kanah.
(b)Rav Yosef ...
1. ... refutes this proof however - by establishing the Mishnah like Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah (who holds Rubo ke'Kulo).
2. ... answers Abaye, who asks whether the author of every Rov in Shas is Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah - by drawing a distinction between a Rov by Shechitah (where Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah specifically argues with the Rabbanan regarding Rov), and other areas of Halachah, where presumably the Rabbanan do not argue.
(c)According to Rav Yosef, when the Rabbanan in our Mishnah say M'lo ha'Chut al P'nei Kulah - they come to preclude (not where one Shechted the last third outside the Taba'as, but) where one Shechted the first third.
6)
(a)In the second Lashon, Rav Huna Amar Rav Asi establishes the Machlokes where the Shochet Shechted the first third beyond the Taba'as ha'Gedolah, and the remainder within it, as Rav Chisda learned in the first Lashon. On what grounds does Rav Chisda now argue with Rav Huna? How does he refute Rav Huna's proof from the Mishnah Rubo shel Echad Kamohu?
(b)In a case where the Shochet first Shechted a third beyond the Makom Shechitah, a third inside, and the last third outside again, Rav Huna Amar Rav declares it Kasher. Why is that?
(c)How will we reconcile Rav Huna here with his previous ruling, where he declared it T'reifah even where the Shochet Shechted one third outside the Makom Shechitah and two thirds inside?
(d)What does Rav Yehudah Amar Rav say? Why is that?
(e)What did Rav Yehudah Amar Rav rule in the reverse case (where one Shechted a third inside, a third outside and a third inside)?
6)
(a)In the second Lashon, Rav Huna Amar Rav Asi establishes the Machlokes where the Shochet Shechted the first third outside the Taba'as ha'Gedolah, and the remainder within it, as Rav Chisda learned in the first Lashon. And Rav Chisda now refutes Rav Huna's proof from the Mishnah Rubo shel Echad Kamohu - by establishing the author as Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah.
(b)In a case where the Shochet first Shechted a third outside the Makom Shechitah, a third inside, and the last third outside again, Rav Huna Amar Rav declares it Kasher - because the life of the animal was removed during the Kasher part of the Shechitah.
(c)To reconcile Rav Huna here with his previous ruling, where he declared it T'reifah even where the Shochet Shechted one third outside the Makom Shechitah and two thirds inside - we establish the current dispute between Rav Huna and Rav Yehudah according to Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos (regarding going beyond the Shipuy Kova) whereas his previous ruling (where he disqualified the Shechitah even where the Shochet Shechted one third outside the Makom Shechitah and two thirds inside) went according to Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah (see also Tosfos DH 'Higrim Sh'lish').
(d)Rav Yehudah Amar Rav - declares it Tereifah because a majority of the Shechitah must be Kasher for the animal to be Kasher.
(e)In the reverse case (where one Shechted a third inside, a third outside and a third inside) - Rav Yehudah Amar Rav ruled that the Shechitah is Kasher (because the majority of the Shechitah is Kasher [despite the fact that the animal was not being Shechted at the time when it died]).
7)
(a)Regarding the current case, what did Rav Huna do that made Rav Yehudah angry?
(b)What was Rav Huna's response? Besides the fact that the majority of the animal was Shechted, how else did he justify Rav Yehudah's anger'?
(c)Why did Rav Chisda advise Rav Huna not to retract? What would he have stood to lose if he had?
(d)What did Rav Chisda therefore conclude?
7)
(a)Regarding the current case, Rav Huna made Rav Yehudah angry - by ruling against him, and declaring the animal T'reifah.
(b)Rav Huna's response was - to concede that Rav Yehudah was right. Besides the fact that the majority of the Shechitah was Kasher, he justified Rav Yehudah's anger - by admitting that whereas Rav Yehudah had cited Rav, he ruled off his own bat.
(c)Rav Chisda however, advised Rav Huna not to retract, because if he did - he would stand to lose his previous ruling too (where the Shochet first Shechted a third beyond the Makom Shechitah, a third inside, and the last third outside again). There, he ruled Kasher, due to the fact that the animal's life departed from it whilst it was being Shechted (irrespective of the fact that the majority of the Shechitah was not Kasher).
(d)By the same token, Rav Chisda concluded - in this latter case, the animal must be T'reifah, because when the animal's life departed, it was not being Shechted (irrespective of the fact that the majority of the Shechitah was Kasher).
19b----------------------------------------19b
8)
(a)What She'eilah did they ask Rav Nachman (in connection with Hagramah), when he arrived in Sura?
(b)He tried to resolve it from a statement by Rebbi Elazar bar Minyumi. What did Rebbi Elazar bar Minyumi say about a Shechitah which resembles a comb?
(c)What did Rav Nachman try to prove from there?
(d)If, as they replied, the Beraisa is talking about a Shechitah that takes place all inside the Makom Shechitah, what is the Chidush?
8)
(a)When Rav Nachman, arrived in Sura, they asked him about Shachat Sh'lish Ve'higrim Sh'lish Ve'shachat Sh'lish.
(b)He tried to resolve it from a statement by Rebbi Elazar bar Minyumi, who ruled that - a Shechitah that resembles a comb is Kasher ...
(c)... which he assumed refers to Shachat Sh'lish Ve'higrim Sh'lish Ve'shachat Sh'lish.
(d)If, as they replied, the Beraisa is talking about a Shechitah which takes place all inside the Makom Shechitah, the Chidush is that - it is not necessary for the Shechitah to be Mefura'as (revealed [that from the side one can see the entire Shechitah from one end to the other]).
9)
(a)Where was Rebbi Aba sitting when Rebbi Kahana asked Rav Yehudah a series of She'eilos?
(b)What did Rav Yehudah rule when Rav Kahana asked him what the Din will be in a case of ...
(c)He then asked him about Shachat be'Makom Nekev and Shachat u'Paga be'Nekev. What is the meaning of Shachat ...
1. ... be'Makom Nekev?
2. ... u'Paga be'Nekev?
(d)What did Rav Yehudah rule in each of the latter cases?
9)
(a)When Rebbi Kahana asked Rav Yehudah a series of She'eilos - Rebbi Aba was sitting behind him.
(b)When Rav Kahana asked Rav Yehudah what the Din will be in a case of ...
1. ... Shachat Sh'lish Ve'higrim Sh'lish Ve'shachat Sh'lish, he ruled that - it is Kasher.
2. ... Higrim Sh'lish Ve'shachat Sh'lish Ve'higrim Sh'lish, he ruled that - it is Pasul.
(c)He then asked him about Shachat be'Makom Nekev and Shachat u'Paga be'Nekev. Shachat ...
1. ... be'Makom Nekev' means - that he began to Shecht the Kanah where there was already a hole or a split.
2. ... u'Paga be'Nekev means that - he Shechted it in a spot where there was a hole or a split in what would otherwise have been the last part of the Shechitah.
(d)Rav Yehudah ruled that - the Shechitah is Kasher in the case of Shachat be'Makom Nekev but Pasul in that of Shachat u'Paga be'Nekev.
10)
(a)What did Rebbi Elazar do when Rebbi Aba informed him of Rav Yehudah's rulings?
(b)How did Rebbi Elazar explain the difference between the two rulings to Rebbi Yochanan?
(c)Rebbi Yochanan disagreed with Rebbi Elazar's reasoning behind Paga be'Nekev however. What did he exclaim when he heard it?
(d)Rava later concurred with Rebbi Yochanan. What distinction did he draw between an Akum finishing the Sh'chitah and 'Paga be'Nekev'?
10)
(a)When Rebbi Aba informed Rebbi Elazar of Rav Yehudah's rulings - he went and repeated them to Rebbi Yochanan.
(b)Rebbi Elazar explained to Rebbi Yochanan that - Shachat be'Makom Nekev can be compared to a Yisrael who completed a Shechitah which a Nochri began (which is Kasher); whereas Shachat u'Paga be'Nekev is comparable to a Nochri who completed the Shechitah begun by a Yisrael (which is Pasul).
(c)Rebbi Yochanan disagreed with Rav Elazar's reasning behind Paga be'Nekev however - and demonstrated this by exclaiming 'Akum Akum!'
(d)Rava later concurred with Rebbi Yochanan, drawing a distinction between an Akum finishing the Shechitah - where the animal's life departs with the Shechitah of the Akum, and Paga be'Nekev, where it departs with the Shechitah of the Yisrael.
11)
(a)What does our Mishnah say about Shechting an animal from ...
1. ... the side of the neck?
2. ... the lower part of the back of the neck (mi'Mul Oref)? Why is that?
(b)Seeing as Shechting an animal from the side of the neck is permitted Lechatchilah, why does the Tana use the Lashon 'ha'Shochet', implying Bedieved?
(c)And what does the Tana say about performing Melikah on a bird of Kodshim in the same two locations?
(d)Why is the Melikah ...
1. ... Pasul in the first case?
2. ... not Pasul in the second (in the same way as it is Pasul regarding an animal)?
11)
(a)Our Mishnah rules that Shechting an animal from ...
1. ... the side of the neck is - Kasher
2. ... the back of the neck (mi'Mul Oref) is - Pasul, because it entails first cutting through the Mafrekes (the back of the neck), which renders the animal a T'reifah.
(b)Even though Shechting an animal from the side of the neck is permitted Lechatchilah, the Tana uses the Lashon 'ha'Shochet' (implying Bedieved) - to balance the Din of Melikah from the side, which is Pasul even Bedi'eved.
(c)With regard to performing Melikah on a bird of Kodshim in the same two locations, the Tana rules that - from the side it is Pasul, whereas from the back it is Kasher (Lechatchilah)
(d)The Melikah is ...
1. ... Pasul in the first case - because the Torah specifically writes "mi'Mul Orpo".
2. ... not Pasul in the second (like it is with regard an animal) - because seeing as the Torah requires piercing it from the back of the neck, cutting through the Mafrekes is considered part of the Melikah.
12)
(a)What does the Tana say about Shechitah on the Tzavar (the front part of the neck) on the one hand, and performing Melikah there on the other?
(b)What problem do we have with the Mishnah ha'Shochet min ha'Oref, Shechitaso Pesulah (if taken literally)?
(c)So how do we interpret min ha'Oref?
(d)How do we prove it from the Seifa?
12)
(a)The Tana rules that - Shechitah from the Tzavar (the front part of the neck) is Kasher, whereas Melikah there is Pasul.
(b)The problem with the Mishnah ha'Shochet min ha'Oref, Shechitaso Pesulah (if taken literally) is that - Melikah ought to be Pasul there too (since the Torah writes "mi'Mul Oref", as we already explained.
(c)So we interpret min ha'Oref to mean - mi'Mul Oref ...
(d)... as is evident in the Seifa Kol ha'Oref Kasher li'Melikah (which can only refer to Mul Oref).
13)
(a)What does the Beraisa learn from the Pasuk ...
1. ... in Yirmiyah " ... ki Panu elai Oref ve'Lo Panim"?
2. ... in Balak "ve'Hu Yoshev mi'Muli"?
(b)How do the b'nei Rebbi Chiya describe the Mitzvah of Melikah?
(c)What are the two ways of interpreting their statement?
(d)We prefer to say Af Machzir, because we learned in our Mishnah ha'Shochet min ha'Oref, Shechitaso Pesulah, ha'Molek min ha'Oref, Melikaso Kesheirah. What do we prove from there? What would be the problem if we held Davka Machzir?
(e)How do we solve the She'eilah?
13)
(a)The Beraisa learns from the Pasuk...
1. ... in Yirmiyah " ... ki Panu elai Oref ve'Lo Panim" that - "Oref" is the part of the skull that lies at the back of the face.
2. ... in Balak "ve'Hu Yoshev mi'Muli" that - "Mul Oref" means facing the Oref, and refers to the lower part of the neck, which faces the Oref.
(b)The b'nei Rebbi Chiya describe the Mitzvah of Melikah as - Machzir Si'manim la'Achorei ha'Oref ...
(c)... which means - either Af Machzir ... (when performing Melikah, the Kohen has the alternative of moving the Si'manim to behind the Mafrekes before piercing them, should he so wish), or Davka Machzir (that that is what he has to do).
(d)We prefer to say Af Machzir, because we learned in our Mishnah ha'Shochet min ha'Oref, Shechitaso Pesulah, ha'Molek min ha'Oref, Melikaso Kesheirah. Now if Machzir was Davka, then there would be no reason for the Shechitah to be Pasul (seeing as he does not cut the Mafrekes first). Consequently, the Tana must be speaking where the Kohen was not Machzir the Si'manim (a proof that this is Kasher ...
