(Mishnah): If he stole from his father and ate in his father's residence, or if he stole from others and ate in other's residence, or stole from others and ate in his father's residence, he is not a Ben Sorer u'Moreh, unless he steals from his father and eats in another's residence.

R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah says, [he is a Ben Sorer u'Moreh] only if he steals from his father and mother.

(Gemara): Which Lav forbids the first theft [of a Ben Sorer u'Moreh]? "Lo Signovu'' (in Parshas Kedoshim, which forbids stealing money). Which Lav forbids his second theft? "Lo Signov'' (in Aseres ha'Dibros, which has Misas Beis Din; it forbids also kidnapping. We explained this like TZAFNAS PANE'ACH and R. MEIR SIMCHAH.)

"Lo Signovu'' in order to vex (even if he intends to return it). Lo Signovu in order to pay Kefel, or to pay four or five (he wants to give to the one he steals from, but knows that he would not accept a gift, so he steals and sells or slaughters in front of witnesses).

Ben Bag Bag says, "Lo Signov'' yours from the thief [who stole from you], lest you look like a thief.

(R. Ba citing R. Yochanan citing R. Hoshayah): [Ben Sorer u'Moreh] is liable only if he stole coins.

(R. Zeirah citing R. Hoshayah): He is liable only if he cheapens coins.

Question: What does it mean "he cheapens coins''? What is the case?

If he says "here are five [Dinarim]. Give to me three [Dinarim worth of meat]'', he is a fool!

If he says "here are three. Give to me [meat worth] five'', this is a normal person [who seeks to get a bargain]!

Answer: Rather, we discuss one who says "here are five. Give to me [meat that sells now for] five'' [and now meat is cheap, and he did not need so much].

Question: What is a Ganav, and what is a Gazlan?

Answer #1 (R. Heila): One who steals in front of witnesses is a Ganav. One who steals in front of the owner is a Gazlan.

Rebuttal (R. Zeirah): Even if he intended to steal the item and the owner, this is not a Gazlan! (A kidnapper is called a Ganav - "Gonev Ish.'')

Question: If so, according to R. Zeirah, what is a Gazlan?

Answer #2 (R. Shmuel bar Susarta citing R. Avahu): He must steal in front of 10 people.

The Binyan Av for all of them [to teach that Gezel is taking openly by force] is "va'Yigzol Es ha'Chanis mi'Yad ha'Mitzri va'Yahargehu ba'Chaniso.''

(Mishnah): If his father wants [Beis Din to judge him] and his mother does not, or vice-versa, he is not a Ben Sorer u'Moreh, unless both of them want.

R. Yehudah says, if his mother is not proper for his father, he does not become a Ben Sorer u'Moreh.

(Gemara - R. Yochanan) Question: (In the previous Mishnah, R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah said that he must steal from his father and mother.) Even if his mother is not proper for his father (i.e. unlike R. Yehudah), doesn't everything that his mother has belong to his father?! (RIDVAZ)

Answer (R. Yosi bei R. Bun): The case is, she made food in pots (for herself to eat, and he stole it).

(Mishnah): If one of [his parents] was missing an arm or leg, or was mute or blind or deaf, he cannot become a Ben Sorer u'Moreh;

It says "v'Sofsu Bo Aviv v'Imo'', and not parents missing an arm. "V'Hotzi'u Oso'', and not parents missing a leg. "V'Omru'', and not mutes. "Bneinu Zeh'', and they are not blind. "Einenu Shome'a b'Koleinu'' and they are not deaf (then they would not know that he does not heed them).

We warn him in front of three judges and lash him (after the first time he stole and ate). If he transgressed again, he is judged through 23 judges;

He is stoned only if the first three judges are present [when he is judged again], for it says "Beneinu Zeh'' - this is the one who was lashed in front of you.

(Gemara): Just like you expound about his mother and father, so you expound about judges of [the Great Sanhedrin], for it says "v'Yatz'u'', and not people missing a leg. "V'Omru'', and not mutes. "Yadeinu'', and not people missing an arm. "V'Eineinu Lo Ra'u'', and not blind;

The verse teaches that just like judges of Beis Din are complete (untainted) in righteousness, they must be complete in their limbs.

(R. Yochanan): If one of the first [three judges] died, he is not stoned.

Question: Doesn't our Mishnah teach this (what is his Chidush)? He is stoned only if the first three judges are present!

Answer (R. Hoshayah): You should not say that his second Din (for his second theft) should become first (and if he will steal a third time, it will be considered the second theft and he will be stoned). Therefore, [R. Yochanan] needed to teach this.

(Mishnah): If he fled before the final verdict, and his lower beard filled out, he is exempt;

If he fled after the verdict, and his lower beard filled out, he is liable.

(Gemara - R. Yoshiyah): Ze'irah told me in the name of people of Yerushalayim, that there are three that if they wanted to pardon, it is pardoned. They are a Sotah, Ben Sorer u'Moreh, and Zaken Mamrei [who rebels] the words of Beis Din.

Question: Doesn't a Mishnah teach this about Sotah? If her husband does not want to make her drink [or he had Bi'ah with her on the way to the Mikdash...] (The Yerushalmi infers that Beis Hillel agrees that she receives her Kesuvah; he pardoned his warning before having Bi'ah with her. It is as if he admitted that he warned her for no reason.) (OHR SOMAYACH SOTAH 1:7)

Answer: One might have thought that this is only before her Megilah was written. [R. Yoshiyah] teaches that even after the Megilah was written and it was not erased [he can pardon]. However, after it was erased, he cannot.

Question: Doesn't our Mishnah teach [that parents can pardon] a Ben Sorer u'Moreh? If his father wants and his mother does not, or vice-versa [he is not a Ben Sorer u'Moreh]!

Answer: One might have thought that this is only before he stood in judgment. [R. Yoshiyah] teaches that even after he stood in judgment [they can pardon]. However, after the final verdict, they cannot.

[Beis Din can pardon] a Zaken Mamrei, i.e. not to kill him, but they would not return him to his place (e.g. if he was a judge, he may not judge again).

R. Yoshiyah: When I came to R. Yehudah ben Beseira in Netzivin, he admitted to me about two, and one he did not agree. He did not agree about [pardoning] a Zaken Mamrei, lest arguments increase in Yisrael.

What is Beis Shamai's reason [to say that if a Sotah's husband died before she drank, she receives her Kesuvah]? She can say "bring to me my husband, and I will drink!''

What is Beis Hillel's reason [to say that she does not receive her Kesuvah]? Since there is no husband other make her drink, the Torah returned her to Safek, and her Safek is [considered Tamei] Vadai. (GILYONEI HA'SHAS)

(Mishnah): Pogemes (one who admits that she received part of her Kesuvah), she collects the rest only through a Shevu'ah.

(Beraisa): This refers to Pogemes, but not to Pocheses (one who reduces). What is the case? If her Kesuvah was 200, and she says that it is 100, she collects without a Shevu'ah.

Question: What is the difference between Pogemes and Pocheses?

Answer (R. Chanina): Pogemes, there were dealings between them (she is like Modeh b'Miktzas). Pocheses, there were no dealings between them.

Question (R. Yirmeyah): [If so,] just like you say there that if one witness testifies that it was paid, she collects only through a Shevu'ah, similarly if one witness testifies that it was less [than is written], she should collect the reduced amount only through a Shevu'ah!

NOTE: He assumes that surely she is not believed to contradict him without a Shevu'ah. Rather, she admits that it is less, and he asks whether or not she must swear.

Answer (R. Yosi): When one witness testifies that it was paid, he does not contradict two [witnesses who signed that her husband obligated himself for the full amount written]. When one witness testifies that it was less, he contradicts two [who signed that it was for the amount written! Therefore, even if she contradicts him, she need not swear.]

Question: It was taught that one who collects [her Kesuvah] not in front of him she collects only through a Shevu'ah. (This implies that in such a case, others collect without a Shevu'ah.) Do we collect from someone not in front of him?!

Answer (R. Yirmeyah): The case is, there is Ribis accumulating in the document (it saves money for the borrower to pay it immediately).

Question: Does Beis Din collect Ribis?!

Answer: The case is, [the one collecting] was an Arev (guarantor, for one who borrowed) from a Nochri.

Question (Beraisa): If an heir's father was Pogem his loan document, the son collects without a Shevu'ah. In this way, a son has greater than power than his father, for the father collects only through a Shevu'ah. (He should swear, just like Pogemes Kesuvasah!)

Answer (R. Elazar): (He cannot swear that it was not paid, for he does not know.) He takes the Shevu'ah of an heir, that father did not command us, father did not tell us, and we did not find a document among his documents that this document was paid. This implies that if they found [such a document], it is paid!

Question (R. Hoshayah): Is the Beraisa like Beis Shamai (who say that a document is considered to be collected, therefore a Sotah collects when her husband died, and also here, the heir collects even though he cannot swear that it was not paid)?!

Answer (R. Yosi): Beis Shamai's reason is that [she can say] "bring to me my husband, and I will drink!'' However, here, it would be proper that even the father need not swear [since he holds the document]. In was an enactment that he swear. They enacted about him, but not for his son. Since he died, we establish his son like Torah law (he collects without a Shevu'ah).

[Normally,] if the father was obligated a Shevu'ah in Beis Din [in order to collect], and he died, his son cannot collect. If not (we would not say so), what would we say - does a man bequeath an oath to his son?!

(R. Ba): It was taught that if a man was Pogem his document in Beis Din and he died, [his son] does not collect.

Objection (Rav Chisda): Because he took two steps to Beis Din, does he lose? Had he been Pogem his document outside of Beis Din, you say that he collects. Because he was Pogem it in Beis Din, you say that he does not collect?!