1)

(a)According to Rebbi Eliezer, we begin to mention rain - (i.e. recite 'Mashiv ha'Ru'ach u'Morid ha'Gashem') from the first day of Sukos. Mentioning rain.

(b)Rebbi Yehoshua says - that one only begins saying 'Mashiv ha'Ru'ach' on Shemini Atzeres.

(c)Rebbi Yehoshua asked Rebbi Eliezer why one should begin to ask for rain on the first day of Sukos, when rain on Sukos is a curse. The latter replied - that he was talking about mentioning the power of Hash-m, who produces the rain in its time (which has nothing to do with asking for it).

(d)Rebbi Yehoshua counters that - in that case, one may as well mention it the whole year round.

2)

(a)According to the Tana of our Mishnah, we actually ask for rain - when it is close to the rain season (though this will be explained later in the Sugya).

(b)Rebbi Yehudah discusses when the mention of rain begins and ends. It is ...

1. ... the Ba'al Musaf - who begins mentioning rain on Shemini Atzeres, and ...

2. ... the Ba'al Shacharis - who mentions rain for the last time on the first day of Pesach.

(c)We refute the suggestion that the Tana of our Mishnah ('Me'eimasai Mazkirin Gevuros Geshamim ... ') took his cue from the Mishnah in Berachos, which has already taught that we mention rain in 'Gevuros Geshamim', and ask for it in Birchas ha'Shanim - because if so, then what is this Mishnah doing here (so many Masechtos after Berachos); it should have been learned there in Berachos.

(d)In fact, our Tana takes his cue - from the Mishnah in Rosh Hashanah 'uve'Chag Nidonim al ha'Mayim'. Seeing as we are judged on Sukos for water, it is correct to mention Hash-m's kindness in providing us with water, to encourage Him to judge us favorably.

3)

(a)The Tana refers to the rain as 'Gevuros Geshamim' - because their descent demonstrates Hash-m's might (See Agados Maharsha DH 'Kesiv').

(b)There is no mention of 'Gevurah' in the Pasuk in Iyov which talks about rain ("Oseh Gedolos v'Ein Cheiker v'Nifla'os ad Ein Mispar"). The Tana nevertheless arrives at 'Gevuros Geshamim' from that Pasuk - through a 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "Cheker" "Cheker" from a Pasuk in Yeshayah which talks about the creation, with regard to which another Pasuk in Tehilim writes "Mechin Harim b'Ko'ach, Ne'ezar bi'Gevurah".

(c)We learn that it is specifically in the Amidah that we mention rain - from the Pasuk in Shema "ule'Avdo b'Chol Levavchem" (and worshipping with the heart always refers to Tefilah), which continues "And I will give the rain of your land ... ".

4)

(a)Rebbi Yochanan tells us about three keys - the key of rain, the key of birth and the key of Techi'as ha'Meisim ...

(b)... over which, he says, Hash-m retains direct jurisdiction (he declines to hand them over to a Shali'ach [see Tosfos DH 'Sheloshah']).

(c)We learn the key for rain from the Pasuk in Ki Savo "Yiftach Hash-m Lecha es Otzaro ha'Tov ... ", the key to Techi'as ha'Meisim from the Pasuk in Yechezkel "vi'Yeda'tem ki Ani Hash-m, b'Pischi es Kivroseichem" and the key of childbirth from the Pasuk in Vayeitzei - "va'Yizkor Elokim es Rachel va'Yishma Eilehah Elokim, va'Yiftach es Rachmah".

5)

(a)The Bnei Eretz Yisrael learned from the Pasuk in Tehilim "Pose'ach es Yadecha ... " - that Hash-m also retains the key of Parnasah (sustenance). Note: A wonderful hint to the four keys (according to the Bnei Eretz Yisrael), lies in the word 'Miftei'ach' (a key), which spells the first letters of 'Matar' - rain; 'Parnasah' - sustenance; 'Techi'ah' - the revival of the dead; 'Chayah' - a woman who gives birth.

(b)Nevertheless, Rebbi Yochanan did not include the latter in his list - because, in his opinion, Parnasah is synonymous with rain (which he has already included).

6)

(a)We ask whether Rebbi Eliezer learns his ruling (' ... Mazkirin Gevuros Geshamim ... ') from Lulav (i.e. the four species) or from Nisuch ha'Mayim. We think that he might learn it from Lulav - because the four species require a lot of water, and they come to appease Hash-m for a good rain season.

(b)The difference whether Rebbi Eliezer learns the obligation to mention rain on the first day of Sukos from Lulav or from Nisuch ha'Mayim - is whether one begins saying 'Mashiv ha'Ru'ach' at Ma'ariv (like Nisuch ha'Mayim) or at Shacharis, (like Lulav).

(c)Although Nisuch ha'Mayim did not take place at night-time - nevertheless, like all Nesachim and Menachos, it is Kasher if performed by night (whereas Lulav is Pasul by night even b'Di'eved).

(d)Rebbi Avahu concludes that Rebbi Eliezer learns it from Lulav. Some say from tradition; others, from a Beraisa - which explicitly says that Rebbi Eliezer learns it from Lulav, which comes mainly to appease Hash-m for rain, that just as the four species cannot exist without water, so too, can the world not exist without water. He adds - that for this reason someone who says it during the year is Yotzei.

7)

(a)In the same Beraisa, Rebbi Eliezer counters Rebbi Yehoshua's Kashya by comparing the prayer for rain to Techi'as ha'Meisim in that - just as we mention Techi'as ha'Meisim all the year round, even though it will only occur in its fixed time, so too, can we mention rain all the year round, and it will fall in its fixed time.

(b)According to Rebbi Eliezer, one is permitted to say 'Mashiv ha'Ru'ach' the whole year round if one so wishes, whereas according to Rebbi - the moment one stops asking for rain one also stops mentioning it.

(c)According to Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira, one begins mentioning rain on the second day of Sukos. Rebbi Akiva rules - on the sixth.

(d)When Rebbi Yehudah in our Mishnah, says that it is the Ba'al Musaf who begins saying 'Mashiv ha'Ru'ach' on Shemini Atzeres, but the Ba'al Shacharis who stops saying it on Pesach - he is quoting Rebbi Yehoshua (though which Rebbi Yehoshua we shall see later).

8)

(a)Rebbi Yehoshua counters Rebbi Eliezer's proof from Techi'as ha'Meisim (that there is no harm in mentioning rain the whole year round) - by differentiating between Techi'as ha'Meisim (which could take place at any time), and rain (which is due in winter, but is a sign of curse in summer).

(b)We learn from the Pasuk "ha'Lo Ketzir Chitim ha'Yom" where Shmuel asked for rain out of season - that rain after Nisan is a curse.

(c)According to Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseirah - the extra letters in the Pesukim in Pinchas "v'Niskeihe*m*" (on the second day of Sukos); "u'Nesacheha" (on the sixth day): "k'Mishpata*m*" (on the seventh), which form the word 'Mayim', is the source for the Mitzvah of Nisuch ha'Mayim.

(d)Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira's source for starting Nisuch ha'Mayim (as well as Mashiv ha'Ru'ach) only from the second day of Sukos - lies in the fact that the hint for Nisuch ha'Mayim begins with the'Mem' in "v'Niskeihem" only on the second day.

9)

(a)According to Rebbi Akiva - "u'Nesachehah" (meaning 'and its drink-offerings' - in the plural) is coming to teach us Nisuch ha'Mayim, in addition to Nisuch ha'Yayin.

(b)Rebbi Akiva knows that the Pasuk refers to Nisuch ha'Mayim and not Nisuch ha'Yayin - because in essence, he learns like Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira, who learns Nisuch ha'Mayim from "v'Niskeihe*m*", "u'Nesacheha" and "k'Mishpata*m*".

(c)Nevertheless, he does not agree with Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira completely - because of the extra hint ("u'Nesacheha"), which comes to teach us that the Mitzvah of Nisuch ha'Mayim begins, not on the second day, but on the sixth.