WHICH GIDULIM ARE FORBIDDEN? (Yerushalmi Bikurim Perek 2 Halachah 2 Daf 8b)
øáé éåçðï àæì ìçã àúø àîø àðà áï òæàé ãäëà.
R. Yochanan went to a place, and said 'I am Ben Azai of here' (I am ready to answer any question).
àúà çã ñá ùàì ìéä àîø âéãåìé úøåîä úøåîä âãåìé âãåìéï çåìéï àáì èáì (åîòùø ùðé - ùòøé úåøú àøõ éùøàì îåç÷å) åîòùø øàùåï åñôéçé ùáéòéú åúøåîú çåõ ìàøõ åäîãåîò åäáéëåøéï âéãåìéäï çåìéï.
Question (an elder - Mishnah): Gidulei Terumah are Terumah; Gidulei Giduleihem (what grows from Gidulim) is Chulin. However, Tevel, Ma'aser Rishon, Sefichei (what grows by itself in) Shemitah, Terumah of Chutz la'Aretz, Meduma and Bikurim, their Gidulim are Chulin;
úîï àú àîø âéãåìéäï îåúøéï åäëà àú àîø âéãåìéäï àñåøéï
There you say that Gidulei [Ma'aser and Bikurim] are permitted, and here (our Mishnah) forbids Gidulim!
à''ì äï ãàú àîø âéãåìéäï îåúøéï áãáø ùæøòå ëìä åäï ãúéîø âéãåìéäï àñåøéï áãáø ùàéï æøòå ëìä.
Answer (R. Yochanan): Gidulim are permitted in a matter in which the seed perishes. Gidulim are forbidden in a matter in which the seed does not perish (e.g. an onion just gets bigger).
à''ì åäúðéðï àéæäå ãáø ùàéï æøòå ëìä ëâåï äìåó åäùåí åäáöìéí åäìåó åäùåí åäáöìéí çééáéí ááëåøéí.
Question (the elder): A Mishnah teaches, what is a matter in which the seed does not perish? It is species like Luf (a kind of onion), garlic, and onions. Are Luf, garlic, and onions obligated in Bikurim?!
àîø àæì áï òæàé ãäëà [ãó èæ òîåã á (òåæ åäãø)] àúà ùàì ìøáé éðàé
R. Yochanan: Ben Azai of here left (I cannot answer any question like he can). He went and asked R. Yanai.
à''ì ìîòùø äåùáä ãáø ùàéï æøòå ëìä.
Answer #1 (R. Yanai): Regarding Ma'aser it was taught that if the seed does not perish [Gidulim are forbidden].
îçìôà ùéèúé' ãøáé éåçðï úîï àîø øáé éäåùò áï ìåé ì÷øðä ùì ðáéìä äåùáä.
Objection: R. Yochanan contradicts himself! There, [a Mishnah taught that one who carries or moves a Neveilah or Mei Chatas is Metamei Begadim, but there is no Tum'as Begadim for touching. How can one touch Mei Chatas without moving them?] R. Yehoshua ben Levi said, this was taught about touching the horn of a Neveilah (indeed, it cannot apply to Mei Chatas);
àîø ìéä ìà ëï àéìôï øáé øàéúé ëâøéñ ùðéí åàîø àåó äëà åâãåìéäï.
Objection (R. Yochanan): Did Rebbi not teach [in the Mishnah] 'v'Chashuchei Begadim' (plural? If so, you cannot say that it applies only to Neveilah.) Also here, Giduleihem (is plural. Why did R. Yochanan accept R. Yanai's answer that it applies only to Ma'aser?)
[ãó éæ òîåã à (òåæ åäãø)] (åòåã îï äãà [ãáøéí éá éæ] ìà úåëì ìàëåì áùòøéê îòùø ãâðê áàéæä îòùø àîøå áîòùø ùðé èäåø ùðëðñ ìéøåùìéí åéöà åòåã îï äãà ãúðé ìä øáé ùîòåï úðé áùí øáé ùîòåï éù áîòùø ùäîòùø àåñø ãîéå åòéøåáéå å÷ð÷ðéå åñô÷ òéøåáå ëì ùäåà [ãó è òîåã à] åàéï îãìé÷éï áå åàîø àåó áâéãåìéï ëï - äâø''à îåç÷å îëàï åâåøñå ìòéì) à''ø äéìà äï ãúéîø âéãåìéäï àñåøéï øáðéï åäï ãúéîø âéãåìéäï îåúøéí ø''ù.
Answer #2 (R. Heila): You say that Gidulim are forbidden according to Rabanan. You say that Gidulim are permitted according to R. Shimon.
àîø ìéä åäà úðéðï âéãåìé ä÷ãù åîò''ù çåìéï åôåãä àåúï áæîï æøòï.
Objection (Mishnah): Gidulim of Hekdesh and Ma'aser Sheni are Chulin, and he redeems them [based on the value of the seeds] at the time he planted them.
ìàéæä ãáø äåà ôåãä àåúï ìà îôðé ÷ãåùä ùéù áäï àåó äëà éèòðå îçéöä îôðé ÷ãåùä ùéù áäï.
Why does he redeem them? Is it not due to the Kedushah in them? Also here, they should require a Mechitzah, due to the Kedushah in them!
øáé éøîéä øáé àéîé áùí øùá''ì äï ãúéîø âéãåìéäï àñåøéï àéñåø îçéöä [ãó éæ òîåã á (òåæ åäãø)] åäï ãúéîø âãåìéäï îåúøéí äéúø æøåú:
Answer #3 (R. Yirmeyah citing R: Imi citing Reish Lakish): You say that Gidulim are forbidden - Isur Mechitzah (outside of Yerushalayim). You say that Gidulim are permitted - to Zarim.
WHAT OBLIGATES VIDUY? (Yerushalmi Bikurim Perek 2 Halachah 2 Daf 9a)
äøé àìå áîòùø åááéëåøéí îä ùàéï ëï áúøåîä.
(Mishnah): These apply to Ma'aser and Bikurim, but not to Terumah.
úîï úðéðï [ãáøéí ëå éâ] åâí ðúúéå æå úøåîä åúøåîú îòùø
(Mishnah): "V'Gam Nesativ'' - this is Terumah and Terumas Ma'aser.
úîï àú àîø úøåîä èòåðä åéãåé åäëà àú àîø úøåîä àéðä èòåðä åéãåé.
Question: There you say that Terumah requires Viduy, and here you say that Terumah does not require Viduy!
àîø øáé äéìà (úðéé úîï äúøåîä åäáëåøéí àçã äðåúðï åàçã äðåèìï èòåðéï) [ö''ì úîï áðåúððä äëà áðåèìä - ø''ù ñéøéìéå]
Answer #1 (R. Heila): There it discusses the giver, and here it discusses the receiver;
[ö''ì ãúðéà äîòùø åäáéëåøéí àçã äðåúðï åàçã äðåèìï èòåðéï åéãåé åúøåîä ðåúðä èòåï åéãåé ðåèìä àéï èòåï - ø''ù ñéøéìéå] åéãåé.
(Beraisa): Ma'aser and Bikurim - both the giver and the receiver are obligated in Viduy. Terumah, the giver is obligated in Viduy, but the receiver is not obligated in Viduy.
àîø øáé æòéøà øáðéï ãúîï ñáøéï [ö''ì ëï - ùòøé úåøú àøõ éùøàì] åøáðéï ãäëà àîøéï îé ùéù ìå îòùø áôðé òöîå îúåãä [ö''ì áëåøéí áôðé òöîï îúåãä - ø''ù ñéøéìéå] îé ùéù ìå úøåîä áôðé òöîå àéðå îúåãä.
Answer #2 (R. Ze'ira): Rabanan there hold like [R. Heila]. Rabanan here (in Eretz Yisrael) say, one who has Ma'aser alone, he says Viduy; Bikurim alone, he says Viduy. One who has Terumah alone, he does not say Viduy. (We explained this like SHA'AREI TORAS ERETZ YISRAEL.)
àîø øáé éåñé îúðéúà àîøä ëï. øáé éåñé àåîø éù ìäï òøé î÷ìè
Support (R. Yosi (the Amora) - Mishnah): (R. Meir says, Kohanim and Leviyim do not say Viduy.) R. Yosi (the Tana) says, [they say Viduy, for] they have refuge cities (and can grow things);
îä ðï ÷ééîéï
Question: What do we discuss [saying Viduy for it]?
àí áúøåîä åîòùø ùìå äï.
If it is Terumah and Ma'aser [Rishon, this cannot be, for] they are his! (Bi'ur does not apply, for a Kohen may keep his Terumah and Ma'aser Rishon forever!)
àìà ëé ðï ÷ééîéï (áúøåîä) [ö''ì áîòùø ùðé åáéëåøéí - äâø''à]
Answer: Rather, we discuss Ma'aser Sheni and Bikurim. (Even a Kohen must give Bikurim to another Kohen, and both of them must be eradicated at the time of Bi'ur.)
[ãó éç òîåã à (òåæ åäãø)] àîø øáé äéìà ùîòðï îé ùéù ìå îòùø áôðé òöîå îúåãä îé ùéù ìå áéëåøéí áôðé òöîï îúåãä. ùîòðï îé ùéù ìå úøåîä áôðé òöîä [ö''ì àéðå - äâø''à] îúåãä:
Rebuttal (R. Heila): Do we learn [from here] that one who has Ma'aser alone, he says Viduy, and that one who has Bikurim alone, he says Viduy? (Perhaps it is only if he has both of them!) Do we learn [from here] that one who has Terumah alone, he does not say Viduy?! (Perhaps a Yisrael says for Terumah alone! We explained this like GRA.)