(Mishnah): The following must die - Vlad Chatas, Temuras Chatas and Chatas she'Mesu Ba'aleha (the owner died);

Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah (it was not offered within its first year), or if it (a Chatas) was lost and was found with a Mum (after Hafrashah, i.e. another animal was Hukdash to replace it, but before the replacement was offered):

After Kaparah, Yamus (it must die);

One may not benefit from it. Me'ilah does not apply to it.

Before Kaparah, it (Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah) is Ro'eh until it gets a Mum. We bring a replacement with its redemption money;

It makes Temurah, Me'ilah applies to it.

(Gemara) Question: Why weren't all five cases taught together?

Answer: The first three were taught by themselves, for always they must die. The last two were taught by themselves, for sometimes they are Ro'eh.. (Rashi - if it is Nidcheh (disqualified) for two reasons, it must die; Tosfos - two Dichuyim is a reason to say Ro'eh; see Insights.)

Question: Why is this Mishnah taught here and also in Maseches Me'ilah?

Answer: Here it is taught to teach when it makes Temurah. By the way, it teaches also about Me'ilah. There it is taught to teach when Me'ilah applies. By the way, it teaches also about Temurah.

(Reish Lakish): We consider Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah as if it is in a cemetery (Rashi - i.e. a Kohen cannot offer it; Shitah - we do not consider it to be lost). It is Ro'eh (whether before or after Kaparah).

Question (Mishnah): Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah, or if it was lost and was found with a Mum -- after Kaparah, Yamus.

Answer (Reish Lakish): This clause (that after Kaparah, Yamus) applies only to case 5. (It was lost, and found with a Mum.)

Question: This cannot be. The Seifa says that before Kaparah, it is Ro'eh until it gets a Mum. In case 5, it already has a Mum!

Answer #1 (Rabah): It means that if it was lost, and found with a Mum Over (a temporary Mum):

If this was after Kaparah, Yamus;

Before Kaparah, it is Ro'eh until it gets a Mum Kavu'a, then it is sold.

Objection #1 (Rava): If so, it should say "Yishmor" (Rashi - he watches the Mum Over, to see if it will become a Mum Kavu'a; Tosfos - he waits to see if it will heal. If it does, it may be offered!)

Objection #2 (Rava): If Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah never dies, why is it in the Mishnah? Everything the Mishnah discusses (at least sometimes) dies!

Answer #2 (Rava): The Mishnah means, if Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah was lost, or if a Chatas was lost and found with a Mum:

After Kaparah, Yamus;

Before Kaparah (if it is Tam, i.e. Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah that was lost), it is Ro'eh until it gets a Mum, and then it is sold.

It must teach both cases of Aveidah, i.e. she'Avrah Shenasah and Ba'al Mum. (Below, "Aveidah helps" means that after Kaparah, it gets the law of a lost Chatas, i.e. Yamus);

Version #1 (Rashi): Had it taught only about she'Avrah Shenasah, we would think that there Aveidah helps, because it (has another Pesul, it) is unfit for its designation, but Aveidah would not help for a Ba'al Mum, for (it is not a major Pesul;) if not for the Mum it would be fit;

Had it taught only about Ba'al Mum, we would think that there Aveidah helps, because it cannot be offered at all, but she'Avrah Shenasah is valid for other Korbanos, so Aveidah would not help.

Version #2 (Tosfos, according to text of Chok Nasan): Had it taught only about she'Avrah Shenasah, we would think that there Aveidah helps, because (this is not considered a Pesul, for) it is valid for other Korbanos, but Aveidah does not help a Ba'al Mum, for it cannot be offered at all;

Had it taught only about Ba'al Mum, we would think that Aveidah helps, because if not for the Mum it would be fit, but she'Avrah Shenasah is not fit for its designation, so Aveidah would not help.

Question: Does Rava really hold that if a Pasul was lost (and found), Yamus?!

Rava taught that if a Chatas was lost at night (and a replacement was designated and the Chatas was found in the morning), the law of Aveidah does not apply! (Tosfos - since in any case, Korbanos may not be offered at night, this is like a second Pesul.) (Likewise, if a Pasul (which could not be offered in any case) was lost, it should not have to die!)

Answer: A Tam lost at night is different, for neither it nor (something bought with) its Damim may be offered at night;

This is unlike a Pasul. Granted, a Pasul may not itself be offered, but its Pidyon may be offered.

Question (Mishnah): (On Yom Kipur, a lottery determines which of two goats is offered to Hash-m and which is sent to Azazel. If the goat chosen for Azazel died, we take two other goats and do another lottery. The new goat chosen for Azazel replaces the dead goat.) The second grazes until it gets a blemish, and the money goes to Nedavah, because Chatas Tzibur need not die.

Inference: Such a case of a Korban Yachid would have to die!

(R. Yochanan): Living animals can become Nidchim (permanently disqualified, even if the Pesul goes away). The goat chosen for Hash-m from the second pair is offered, and the goat from the first pair is like Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah.

Inference: It does not die because it is a Korban Tzibur, but such a case of a Korban Yachid would die! (This is unlike Rava, who said that it dies only if there are two reasons why it was rejected.)

Answer: The law of Nidcheh is unike that of a lost animal.

Question: What is the reason?

Answer: The owner of a lost animal hopes to find it and offer it, but a Nidcheh can never be offered.

(Rava): If a Chatas was lost at night, the law of Aveidah does not apply.

Question: According to which Tana is this?

It is not like Chachamim. They say that even if it was lost during the day, it is Ro'eh (if it was found before Kaparah (atonement, i.e. through a replacement). We assume that the lost Chatas was found before morning, which is before Kaparah)!

Answer #1: It is like Rebbi;

Rebbi said only that a Chatas lost during the day must die. He agrees that if it was lost at night, it is Ro'eh (since the replacement could not have been offered).

Answer #2: Really, it is like Chachamim. It was lost at night and not found until after Kaparah;

Chachamim say that a Chatas found after Kaparah must die only if it was first lost during the day. If it was lost at night, it is Ro'eh.

(Abaye): A lost Chatas must die (if found after Hafrashah/Kaparah, according to Rebbi/Chachamim), but not a Chatas that was stolen covertly or openly.

Question: In which case of Aveidah does the law (Yamus) apply?

Answer #1 (R. Yoshiyah): It is even if it became mixed with the owner's herd, or with one other animal (Rashi - of Chulin; Shitah - a Chatas for a different sin. The owner sees it, but does not know which is which);

Answer #2 (R. Yochanan): It is when the Chatas is (hiding) behind the door.

Question: What does this mean?

Does it mean that in back of the door is considered lost, because no one sees it, but if it went outside (and became mixed with someone else's flock), and someone else sees it, it does not die;

Or, in back of the door is considered lost, even though he could see it if he would move around , and all the more so if it went outside, for he cannot see it at all!

This question is not resolved.

(Rav Papa): If the owner lost it but the shepherd knows where it is, it is not considered lost, and all the more so if the shepherd lost it but the owner knows where it is;

Question (Rav Papa): If the owner and shepherd lost it, but somewhere else someone knows where it is, what is the law?

This question is not resolved.

Question (Rav Papa): If (a Chatas was lost, and it was found after a replacement was slaughtered and its) blood was received in a bucket, what is the law?

Question: According to which Tana does he ask?

He does not ask according to Rebbi. Rebbi says that even if it was found after Hafrashah (before Shechitah), Yamus!

Answer #1: He asks according to Chachamim;

Chachamim say that a Chatas found after Hafrashah (before Hakravah) is Ro'eh. Perhaps after Kabalas ha'Dam, it is as if the blood was thrown (i.e. after Hakravah, so Yamus);

Or, perhaps as long as Zerikah was not done, it is Ro'eh!

Answer #2: Really, he asks according to Rebbi;

Rav Papa asked about a Chatas whose blood was received in two buckets, and one of them was lost.

He does not ask according to the opinion that one bucket is Docheh another (if all four Matanos were made from one bucket, the other bucket is Nidcheh, it must be spilled (to waste) into the Amah (a stream that flows through the Mikdash). All the more so, when the blood is lost, it is Nidcheh. Rashi explains that when even some of the blood is Nidcheh, the Korban is Pasul. Shitah Mekubetzes disagrees.)

He asks according to the opinion that one bucket (is not Docheh another, rather,) makes another Shirayim (the latter is poured on the Yesod, like Shirayim);

Perhaps this is only when both buckets are here, for Matanos could be done from either, but if one is lost, it is Nidcheh;

Or, perhaps we do not distinguish!

This question is not resolved.

(Mishnah): If a Chatas was lost and a replacement was offered, and then the Chatas was found, Yamus;

If Demei (money Hukdash for a) Chatas was lost and a replacement was offered, and then the money was found, it must be cast into Yam ha'Melach (the Dead Sea).

If Demei Chatas was lost and money was Hukdash in its place, and the first money was found before a Chatas was bought, we buy a Chatas from both monies, and the excess goes to Nedavah.

If Demei Chatas was lost and an animal was Hukdash in place of it, and before it was offered the money was found and the animal got a Mum, it is redeemed. We buy a Chatas from both monies, and the excess goes to Nedavah.

If a Chatas was lost and money was Hukdash in its place, and before another Chatas was bought the Chatas was found and it has a Mum, it is redeemed. We buy a Chatas from both monies, and the excess goes to Nedavah.

If a Chatas was lost and a replacement was Hukdash, and before it was offered the Chatas was found;

Rebbi says, if both of them are Tamim, one of them is offered, and the other must die;

Chachamim say, a Chatas dies only if it was found after Kaparah, and Demei Chatas is cast to Yam ha'Melach only if it was found after Kaparah. (We call the above Cases 1,2,... 6.)

If a Chatas was Hukdash and it has a Mum, it is sold, and another Chatas is brought with the money;

R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon says, if the new Chatas was slaughtered before the first, the first must die, for this is like after Kaparah.

(Gemara) Inference: (In the Reisha (case 1)) the found Chatas must die because it was found after Kaparah. Had it been found before Kaparah, it would be Ro'eh.

This is like Chachamim, who say that if a lost Chatas was found after Hafrashah (but before Kaparah), it is Ro'eh.

Question (Seifa (case 3)): If Demei Chatas was lost and more money was Hukdash, and the first money was found before a Chatas was bought, we buy a Chatas from both monies, and the excess goes to Nedavah.

Inference: We must buy a Chatas from both monies. If not, the other money must be cast into Yam ha'Melach!

This is like Rebbi, who says that if a lost Chatas was found after Hafrashah, Yamus.

Will we say that the Reisha is Chachamim, and the Seifa is Rebbi?!