What happens to the kohain gadol that was maskinin in case the regular kohain gadol becomes tumah after yom kippur if he wasn't needed and didn't do the avodah?
Mendy kaplowitz
The Gemara later (12b) will cite a Machlokes Tana'im as to what happens to the deputy Kohen Gadol who did serve on Yom Kipur - whether he retains the status of a Kohen Gadol or cannot serve at all.
At first glance it seems that if he did not serve because he was not needed, he retains his original status. I suggest you wait for the Sugya there and take up the issue again then.
By the way, I suppose you meant to say 'in case the regular Kohein Gadol became Tamei on Yom Kipur' (and not after Yom Kipur).
be'Virchas Kol Tuv,
Eliezer Chrysler
I did mean on yom kippur. why should we wait for the sugya its almost there?
Someone asks a kasha why they needed a deputy when they already had a s'gan and he answers that after yom kippur he wouldn't be able to be s'gan anymore and he didn't want to lose his job.
Mendy Kaplowitz
The standby Kohen Gadol can presumably return to his regular position after Yom Kipur if he was not needed to perform the Avodah on Yom Kipur, as I wrote.
The question you mentioned (why we need a standby Kohen Gadol when we already have a Segan) is asked by the Gevuras Ari on Daf 39a. The Gevuras Ari answers that the standby normally is the Segan, and that our Mishnah means that if there is no Segan on Yom Kipur (e.g. he died or became Tamei and they had not yet managed to appoint a new one before Yom Kipur arrived), we appoint another Kohen to be the standby for Yom Kipur.
I do not understand the answer that you provided for the Gevuras Ari's question. The Gemara later (39a) explains that the Segan Kohen Gadol stood on the Kohen Gadol's right-hand side throughout the year so that he should be prepared to take over immediately, should the Kohen Gadol become Pasul. This indicates that the one to take over from the Kohen Gadol anytime the Kohen Gadol became Pasul was indeed the Segan Kohen Gadol. What difference does it make if the Segan takes over when the Kohen Gadol becomes Pasul on Yom Kipur or on any other day of the year?
(In addition, according to Rebbi Meir, 12b, the Segan may do Avodah - with 8 Begadim - after he replaces the Kohen Gadol who became Pasul. So why can't he return to his position as Segan? However, see what the Sefas Emes writes on 39a regarding the Mashu'ach Milchamah replacing the Kohen Gadol.)
If you meant that the standby is no longer valid for Avodah even if the Kohen Gadol does not become Pasul on Yom Kipur, you would need a source (and logical explanation) for that statement.
Be well,
M. Kornfeld
In reference to the segan - Rabbi Yosef Grossman, one of the magidei shiur on the OU radio daf yomi, discussed why R. Chananyia the Segan had such a title. Why would he be permanent segan and never Kohain Gadol? He answered that during the time of the end of Bayis Sheini kohanim bought the office of kehuna gedola which was awarded to the highest bidder. These were often tzedokim and they didn't survive the year. R. Chananya was a great man and he would have no part in such an undignified process as bidding for the kehuna gedola. Therefore went the kohein gadol died he never replaced him and stayed segan.
Bkavod,
Sam Kosofsky
Perhaps we can answer the question of the Gevuras Ari based on the words of Tosfos 9a (DH Shemoneh). Tosfos writes that whenever a new Kohen Gadol was appointed, a new Segan was appointed with him. It may be suggested that the Segan was not appointed until the first Yom Kipur, after which he would remain the "right hand man" of the Kohen Gadol as long as the Kohen Gadol was serving. If so, it would be appropriate for our Mishnah to speak about appointing a replacement Kohen Gadol before Yom Kipur, especially during the second Temple period, where new Kohanim Gedolim were appointed yearly (Yoma 9a).
E. Chrysler
The Gemara later 12b, will cite a Machlokes Tana'im as to what happens to the deputy Kohen Gadol who did serve on Yom Kipur - whether he retains the status of a Kohen Gadol or cannot serve at all.
At first glance it seems that if he did not serve because he was not needed, he retains his original status. I suggest you wait for the Sugya there and take up the issue again then.
By the way, I suppose you meant to say 'in case the regular Kohein Gadol became Tamei on Yom Kipur' (and not after Yom Kipur).
What I meant was that what I wrote is probably correct, but it can be checked out when we learn the Sugya more thoroughly.
'Someone' may be right according to the opinion that I quoted (R. Yossi) that forbids him to return to the Kehunah, but what will he say according to those (R. Meir) who permit him to remain Kohen Gadol?
The Gemara later 39a explains that the deputy K.G stood on the K.G.'s right-hand side during the lot drawing ceremony, so that he should be prepared to rake over, should the K.G. become Pasul and therefore unable to continue the Avodah (see Rashi there). This indicates that the one to take over from the K.G. was indeed the deputy K.G. The Mishnah speaks about appointing somebody else, says the Gevuras Ari, is because it is speaking in a case where there is no dceputy (e.g. he died and they had not yet managed to appoint a new one before Yom Kipur arrived).
The Avodas Yisrael however, answers that the Mishnah argues with the Beraisa and holds that one does indeed appoint a third person, in which case 'someone's' question is justified.
Dare we say that, in answer to the point that I raised, the author of our Mishnah is R. Meir (S'tam Mishnah R. Meir), whilst the author of the Beraisa is R. Yossi?
Be'Virchas Kol Tuv
Eliezer Chrysler